SP 3.0?

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James Tanner

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Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #80 on: 12 Apr 2008, 05:04 pm »
1- Dolby headphone

Ooh, ace! 
:drool:

Is there any chance we might eventually get Dolby Headphone on the SP2 (or SP1.7 with DSP upgrade)? I don't mean "can we have a headphone socket added?" I mean a Dolby Headphone signal produced through a pair of the existing RCA outputs.

Hi,

The more we look into this the more the trade-in option appears to be the choice we will have to go with.

james

nicolasb

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Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #81 on: 12 Apr 2008, 05:07 pm »
The more we look into this the more the trade-in option appears to be the choice we will have to go with.

That isn't necessarily a bad thing, by any means; it obviously depends very strongly on the terms of the trade-in. Any word on that yet?

James Tanner

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Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #82 on: 12 Apr 2008, 06:24 pm »
The more we look into this the more the trade-in option appears to be the choice we will have to go with.

That isn't necessarily a bad thing, by any means; it obviously depends very strongly on the terms of the trade-in. Any word on that yet?

No word yet as we have no idea what the costs of the new SP3 will be.

james

onthefly

Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #83 on: 13 Apr 2008, 11:03 am »
1- Dolby headphone

Ooh, ace! 
:drool:

Is there any chance we might eventually get Dolby Headphone on the SP2 (or SP1.7 with DSP upgrade)? I don't mean "can we have a headphone socket added?" I mean a Dolby Headphone signal produced through a pair of the existing RCA outputs.

Hi,

The more we look into this the more the trade-in option appears to be the choice we will have to go with.

james


James

Offering a trade in would possibly help me move from my SP2 to a SP3.  Though I have to say you are digging a big hole for Bryston.  When I first read you were considering this option I thought it was April 1st.  We'd all want top dollar for our beloved SP's and what is Bryston going to do with them all?  Like I said, I might benefit from a scheme but if my surname was Bryston this is not an option I would offer.

brucek

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Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #84 on: 13 Apr 2008, 12:40 pm »
Quote
We'd all want top dollar for our beloved SP's and what is Bryston going to do with them all?

I doubt the upgrade option is possible. How could you fit a 3 or 4 rack height set of electronics into a 2 height cage?

I've always see the trade in option as the only choice. It certainly relieves Bryston of the messy task of designing a creative upgrade path that they would likely only break even on.

What do we care where they dispose of the trade in junk. There would be junk with an upgrade option as well.

Certainly, the lower the exchange price that's offered, the less there is a problem.

That price has to be weighed against loyal customer loss. If they offer you 50%, you're a customer forever, but if they offer 10%, you're gone..... Tricky business.

brucek

James Tanner

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Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #85 on: 13 Apr 2008, 12:44 pm »
What about stripping the Digital surround out of the traded in SP2's and offering them for sale as a nice inexpensive STEREO Analog/Digital Preamp?

james
« Last Edit: 13 Apr 2008, 12:59 pm by James Tanner »

KeithA

Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #86 on: 13 Apr 2008, 03:14 pm »
Quote
Certainly, the lower the exchange price that's offered, the less there is a problem.

That price has to be weighed against loyal customer loss. If they offer you 50%, you're a customer forever, but if they offer 10%, you're gone..... Tricky business.

Just a thought, though, what is the breadth of what we are talking about here? I mean, how many of the SP1/1.7 users took adantage of the existing upgrade programs of SP1 to SP1.7 and SP1.7 to SP2? How many will actually upgrade to the SP3, especially since it will likely enatail a more expensive upgrade than either of the other two before? Sure, some will, but will it be extensive?

Well, I see the option of Bryston looking at taking back SP1/SP1.7s and SP2s as a virtual Pandora’s Box.

If for no other reason than what value do you assign to each of the different units? Is there a ‘trade-in’ difference offered on a SP2 vs an SP1.7 upgraded to SP2? Better still, who’s eligible for the upgrade? Only customers who bought their units from authorized dealers (and therefore paid full street price new)? Does one offer the same trade-in credit to someone who paid half price for a used unit while another customer paid full price? Does a person who bought from a non-authorized dealer get excluded? Sure, they may not be eligible for warranty, but anyone should be able to have access to an upgrade where it’s being sold for cash. I guess what I’m saying is that a trade-in program has a lot of variables. It would be too many for me, (if I were in your shoes James!)

Let's go back to the concept of the initial 'upgrade' mechanism. I suspect the cost to upgrade from model to model was always intended to be at worst a break-even recovery on the part of Bryston. At best, a marginal profit on the upgrade program. After all, it is a business.

So, let’s assume that the task of squeezing SP1/1.7/2s into “SP3s” by adding extra chassis, extra parts, throwing away old parts, etc is just not worth the frustration. As well, even if it could be done, the scope of changes may approach the input costs of a new unit. Then, effectively the cost of the upgrade becomes the actual production cost of the new SP3. Bryston can either offer the ‘upgrade’ at  cost, at worst, and maybe even marginally below costs for the value it sees in keeping the current users happy and loyal.

However, I would keep it at that. So, existing owners would get to keep their SP1/1.7/2 and upgrade at the 'Bryston cost'. Then, if the users want to sell their old units, they can. The pricing is at the mercy of the market and the price gotten would be based on condition of the unit, how many previous owners, etc. In other words, the customer has the ability to set their ‘net upgrade’ price.

As far as price crashes on the basis of obsolescence when a new SP3 hits the shelves? I don’t see that likely happening. If a new SP3 unit has a MSRP of, say $8,000, a used Bryston SP1/1.7/2 will likely still catch a favorable resale price (especially when viewed in conjunction with the fact that you’d be getting an SP3 ‘upgrade’ at cost or better). Not every one wants to be on the bleeding edge. It will take a long time for SP1/1.7/2 technology to be ‘obsolete’.

Sure, this may have holes as well. But I think you have to look at all sides. I think Bryston agreeing to give a trade in credit on existing units raises more questions.

This is just another angle. Just trying to look at something that's win/win for both sides. For the record, I have a SP1.7. Never even considered the SP2 upgrade and would only even consider the SP3 upgrade mainly on the basis of an improvement to the 2-channel analogue side.

Keith

Toka

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Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #87 on: 13 Apr 2008, 03:25 pm »
What about stripping the Digital surround out of the traded in SP2's and offering them for sale as a nice inexpensive STEREO Analog/Digital Preamp?

I think that is actually a very good idea. No sense trying to shoehorn an upgrade into an existing box if it doesn't make sense, "promise" or not. Nobody could have predicted exactly how technology would have shifted in just a few short years, and that Bryston are trying as hard as they are speaks volumes as to their support for their customers. If someone is that worried about future resale value, sell it now and stop worrying...invest the cash and you'll be in good shape when the SP3 comes out. Or have it converted into a stereo preamp and start a world-class second system in another room (or get someone else started into real hi-fi).

perose

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Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #88 on: 16 Apr 2008, 12:42 am »
James:

You indicated [digital out?] in your feature list. Would this allow stereo A/D conversion and ouput in S/PDIF format to a computer or DAC? Just wondering because of all that vinyl out there.

Thanks,
Phil

James Tanner

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Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #89 on: 16 Apr 2008, 01:17 am »
James:

You indicated [digital out?] in your feature list. Would this allow stereo A/D conversion and ouput in S/PDIF format to a computer or DAC? Just wondering because of all that vinyl out there.

Thanks,
Phil

If we offer it I assume it would be a digtal stereo mix to SPDIF - not sure if it could A to D - will ask engineering.

james

nicolasb

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Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #90 on: 16 Apr 2008, 07:45 am »
What about stripping the Digital surround out of the traded in SP2's and offering them for sale as a nice inexpensive STEREO Analog/Digital Preamp?
Sounds good. Maybe you could preserve the 5.1 bypass and allow them to be 5.1-channel analogue pre-amps as well?

James Tanner

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Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #91 on: 16 Apr 2008, 12:14 pm »
What about stripping the Digital surround out of the traded in SP2's and offering them for sale as a nice inexpensive STEREO Analog/Digital Preamp?
Sounds good. Maybe you could preserve the 5.1 bypass and allow them to be 5.1-channel analogue pre-amps as well?

Good idea!

james

KeithA

Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #92 on: 17 Apr 2008, 11:20 pm »
James

I'm not sure if this was already asked, but....

1. I thought that in the past (SP1/1.7/2), video was intentionally left out for potential of degrading sound quality. Why would Bryston now consider putting video in the SP3? Is it due to the fact that the 4-rack space will prevent any degradation?

2. I know there's talk of not using the MPS-2 power supply with the SP3. As well, I'm not sure if the planned analogue side power supply will be more robust than what's in the SP1.7. Will there be any plan to build the analogue power supply to a spec as close to the MPS-2 as possible and squeeze it inside the SP3, especially since this will be a much higher unit than the SP1.7/2? The reason I ask is that a move to boost analogue side performance substantially would sway me in considering an upgrade.

Keith

James Tanner

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Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #93 on: 18 Apr 2008, 12:29 am »
James

I'm not sure if this was already asked, but....

1. I thought that in the past (SP1/1.7/2), video was intentionally left out for potential of degrading sound quality. Why would Bryston now consider putting video in the SP3? Is it due to the fact that the 4-rack space will prevent any degradation?

2. I know there's talk of not using the MPS-2 power supply with the SP3. As well, I'm not sure if the planned analogue side power supply will be more robust than what's in the SP1.7. Will there be any plan to build the analogue power supply to a spec as close to the MPS-2 as possible and squeeze it inside the SP3, especially since this will be a much higher unit than the SP1.7/2? The reason I ask is that a move to boost analogue side performance substantially would sway me in considering an upgrade.

Keith

Hi Keith,

1. Yes the video will be in a separate area with shielding. It is the mixing of the grounds and power supplies that is the issue with all in one processors. So it will be essentially an outboard unit that is housed in the larger chassis.  We still may go with video completely separate depending on our tests - or maybe the option of internal or external?

2. The power supply for the Digital sections and the Analog sections require different current and voltage settings. So as we do in all our digital/analog gear we design separate power supplies for the Digital and Analog sections to optimize each ones performance. Thats why we can not use the MPS-2 with our CD Player (CD Player has separate analog and digital power supply and ground plan) because a common power supply will not provide the best performance. So  rest assured the analog power supply will be excellent in the SP3.

james
 

Krobar

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Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #94 on: 20 Apr 2008, 09:14 am »
Hi James,

I'm new here but another owner of the prevously mentioned RDC-7.1 (Not got alot love for Onkyo any more). The list looks good for a replacement of the RDC-7.1 but there are a few things I would like that arent mentioned, I dont know if they are possible:

ILink (Only way to get 5.1 hires PCM out of Winamp at the moment and still best SACD and DVD-A)
HDMI 1.3A Audio Clock Synching (This is like the preamp controlled clock used in ILink, Pioneer are referring to this as PQLS in their new gear but its an open standard)
No Video, it can only increase noise and cost.
Another thumbs up for an AES/EBU input too
10Hz individual speaker set bass management
Excellent fully balanced DA section (Probably dont have to say this :) )
AC3-RF Input


Quote
April 10th 2008

2 pairs of balanced stereo inputs

3-4 rack-spaces

Top rack-space reserved for video

7.1 balanced out

7.1 single ended out

Larger display

Version 1 - Two HDMI in for stripped audio

Version 2 - Eight HDMI in for audio

Version 3 – Eight HDMI in for Audio and Video

6-8 Analog inputs

7.1 Analog bypass

Stereo Analog bypass

1 – Zone

Digital out?

VCR and Tape loop

Two - RS232

1- Ethernet

1- Dolby headphone

nicolasb

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Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #95 on: 20 Apr 2008, 02:39 pm »
Version 1 - Two HDMI in for stripped audio

Version 2 - Eight HDMI in for audio

Version 3 – Eight HDMI in for Audio and Video
James, what do you mean by "stripped audio"?

Oh, and any word on whether the SP3 will support aysnchronous upsampling (or some other form of reclocking)?

Krobar

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Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #96 on: 20 Apr 2008, 02:46 pm »
I think he means the unit will process all audio but pass throuh the video signal. This is the only way to deal with HDMI audio on an audio only prepro.

Tony1

Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #97 on: 20 Apr 2008, 05:40 pm »
James

Would you consider a different type of display screen on the SP3?  Reason I'm asking is that I have SP1.7 it's been only 3 years and the display no longer works.  I bought the SP1.7 thinking that it can be upgraded in the future but with the SP3 and all the options I hope it still can be.  That's why I haven't sent it in yet and want to see what happens. My main concern is that every few years I will need to send it in to get the display fixed or replaced and just thought I'd suggest a more reliable display screen.

Thanks

Tony

James Tanner

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Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #98 on: 20 Apr 2008, 05:40 pm »
Version 1 - Two HDMI in for stripped audio

Version 2 - Eight HDMI in for audio

Version 3 – Eight HDMI in for Audio and Video
James, what do you mean by "stripped audio"?

Oh, and any word on whether the SP3 will support aysnchronous upsampling (or some other form of reclocking)?

Not sure on the upsampling.

james

James Tanner

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Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #99 on: 20 Apr 2008, 05:42 pm »
James

Would you consider a different type of display screen on the SP3?  Reason I'm asking is that I have SP1.7 it's been only 3 years and the display no longer works.  I bought the SP1.7 thinking that it can be upgraded in the future but with the SP3 and all the options I hope it still can be.  That's why I haven't sent it in yet and want to see what happens. My main concern is that every few years I will need to send it in to get the display fixed or replaced and just thought I'd suggest a more reliable display screen.

Thanks

Tony

Hi Tony,

Yes we are looking at a number of different displays with long life as one of the main criteria.

james