SP 3.0?

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rcjordin

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SP 3.0?
« on: 28 Jan 2008, 10:29 pm »
James,

I read in either Home Theater Magazine or Perfect Vision that at CES someone at Bryston's display said there was a new pre/pro in the works.  Can you you shed any light on the topic?   :drool:

Thanks,

Robert

jethro

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Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #1 on: 28 Jan 2008, 11:01 pm »
There's some info in this thread if you haven't already seen it:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=49583.0

cmreddy

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Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #2 on: 30 Jan 2008, 07:13 pm »
Surprisingly not many of us are discussing / speculating in depth about SP3.  :o

alexone

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Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #3 on: 30 Jan 2008, 08:02 pm »
Surprisingly not many of us are discussing / speculating in depth about SP3.  :o

hi, cmreddy!

you are right somehow...i think there are a lot of ac members out there interested in the sp3 developments.
so any suggestions on what the new monster machine should look like and what functions it should include??

al.
« Last Edit: 25 Aug 2008, 08:12 pm by alexone »

cmreddy

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Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #4 on: 30 Jan 2008, 09:59 pm »
I am totally new to the Bryston world. Infact very new to the Pre Pro world.. My passport to this magic kingdom at the moment is Focal Electra BE (BE for beauties) speakers and Arcam AVR 250 (I am out of funds by now). So I am kind of learning on the job at my own expense. :)

I have been reading the posts for a while here to figure out what is important in a processor and a an multi channel amp. May be James Tanner could chime in now and then to update us pro actively (as a matter of fact he does on somethings) with the tit bits on SP3.

And added to that, the previous owners of SP1, 1.7 and 2 could suggest improvements and wish list. For me I would want all the HD sound codecs should be decoded in the new SP3.

Ladies & gentlemen, the floor is opened for discussion..  :)

pantone172

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Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #5 on: 30 Jan 2008, 10:37 pm »
I totally agree. I purchased a SP1.7 with the idea that i could upgrade to the newer HD formats as they become available. I'm interested to see what Bryston will deliver in this regard. I'm sure the SP3 will be a great product. My only hope is that the sp1.7 will also be supported when this happens.

cmreddy

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Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #6 on: 30 Jan 2008, 11:08 pm »
I totally agree. I purchased a SP1.7 with the idea that i could upgrade to the newer HD formats as they become available. I'm interested to see what Bryston will deliver in this regard. I'm sure the SP3 will be a great product. My only hope is that the sp1.7 will also be supported when this happens.

Customers of Bryston unwittingly assume that the products can be upgraded without any limits. But, there was a thread in which, James indicated reasonable doubt that 1.7 may not be upgraded to include HDMI and left some room for speculation for upgrading SP2 with HDMI. I believe most of the second hand SP 1.7s are still being bought in anticipation of upgrading to include HDMI. May be there should be an official statement on the Bryston website as what is possible and what is not.


cmreddy

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Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #7 on: 30 Jan 2008, 11:49 pm »
Here is the thread that addressed the upgrading of SP 1.7 & SP 2 with HDMI inputs.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=35196.0

 But lets not loose the focus of giving our wish list as to what we would like in SP3.

James Tanner

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Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #8 on: 30 Jan 2008, 11:53 pm »
Officially - I do not know if SP1.7's or SP2's will be upgradable. The new HD decoder chips and interface connections will not be available till March or April of this year.

We intended to build the SP3 with all the new technologies available and then try and see if we can filter down these new technologies in a cost effective way to the SP2 and SP1.7.  I am hoping we can salvage the analog sections of the SP2 and add a new Digital board to allow for HD formats.  At some point the technology changes in fundamental ways which simply negate the ability to adapt older technologies to new. I truly do not know if the filter down will be doable until we have an SP3 working and can assess what is possible.

We are at least a year away from a finished SP3.

Hope this helps.

james

_andy_

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Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #9 on: 31 Jan 2008, 10:45 pm »
Surprisingly not many of us are discussing / speculating in depth about SP3.  :o

....i'm definitely hoping it will be my first non-amp piece of kit from Bryston. I'd like to see
a one box solution w/ the exception of video section.

Perhaps maybe a 'sticky thread' where we could track SP-3.0 status/development updates
from James &  questions/suggestions related to that in one location would be good?

Andy

gaderson

Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #10 on: 1 Feb 2008, 01:29 am »
Well, I'm here with a SP1, and not sure the upgrade to the SP2 is worth it at this point, and may go with one of the lower priced pre/pros, like the Onkyo Pro PR-SC885P, or at a even better price point the Denon Pro DN-A7100. Then wait out for the SP3. But, the Onkyo has video processing that I don't need, and both have two few component inputs (need at least four), so all is a compromise.
Thing about Bryston is I really like the separate audio and video philosophy. But, now with HDMI audio things become much more complicated. Most interesting would be a processor with a HDMI that pulls out the audio and passes through the video that would come from an external scalar switcher. Or IEE1394 or some other digital link that would send the digital audio from the scalar/switch to the processor, so as to keep things separate.

James Tanner

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Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #11 on: 2 Feb 2008, 02:28 pm »
Well, I'm here with a SP1, and not sure the upgrade to the SP2 is worth it at this point, and may go with one of the lower priced pre/pros, like the Onkyo Pro PR-SC885P, or at a even better price point the Denon Pro DN-A7100. Then wait out for the SP3. But, the Onkyo has video processing that I don't need, and both have two few component inputs (need at least four), so all is a compromise.
Thing about Bryston is I really like the separate audio and video philosophy. But, now with HDMI audio things become much more complicated. Most interesting would be a processor with a HDMI that pulls out the audio and passes through the video that would come from an external scalar switcher. Or IEE1394 or some other digital link that would send the digital audio from the scalar/switch to the processor, so as to keep things separate.

Hi All,

So far we are thinking:

1. 3 or 4  rack space high unit with the top rack space able to be populated with a our video switcher or not.
2. It will have 8 HDMI ins and 2 HDMI outs.
3. It will strip the audio out
4. 7.1 balanced out
5. Stereo Balanced in

Question -
1. inboard or outboard power supply?
2. Other types of connectors

james

Phil A

Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #12 on: 2 Feb 2008, 03:11 pm »
USB connector for something like an MP3 player on the front and/or back.

alexone

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Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #13 on: 2 Feb 2008, 03:43 pm »
Well, I'm here with a SP1, and not sure the upgrade to the SP2 is worth it at this point, and may go with one of the lower priced pre/pros, like the Onkyo Pro PR-SC885P, or at a even better price point the Denon Pro DN-A7100. Then wait out for the SP3. But, the Onkyo has video processing that I don't need, and both have two few component inputs (need at least four), so all is a compromise.
Thing about Bryston is I really like the separate audio and video philosophy. But, now with HDMI audio things become much more complicated. Most interesting would be a processor with a HDMI that pulls out the audio and passes through the video that would come from an external scalar switcher. Or IEE1394 or some other digital link that would send the digital audio from the scalar/switch to the processor, so as to keep things separate.

Hi All,

So far we are thinking:

1. 3 or 4  rack space high unit with the top rack space able to be populated with a our video switcher or not.
2. It will have 8 HDMI ins and 2 HDMI outs.
3. It will strip the audio out
4. 7.1 balanced out
5. Stereo Balanced in

Question -
1. inboard or outboard power supply?
2. Other types of connectors

james


- usb at the front and back are very useful
- 2 pairs of analog balanced in would be nice
- aes/ebu in (without ''deleting'' the coax connector if in use)
- optical and coax front in
- headphone in
- phono mm/mc option
- bigger display
- outboard power supply yes- if it will be the mps 2 and if it will better the sound
- tape loop

al.

jethro

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Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #14 on: 2 Feb 2008, 08:31 pm »
I don't know if these items have been fixed on the SP-2.0. If not it would be nice to have the following in an SP-3.0:

- fixed right front and rear channel test tone
- sub-woofer test tone low-passed at 120 or 150 Hz
- retain SPV-1 compatibility
- better on-screen/SPV-1 response
- sturdier chassis which doesn't twist
- 1/8" stereo plugs  for the 12-volt turn-on

In addition it might be nice to have a preset volume at power-on to aviod those nasty surprises.

_andy_

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Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #15 on: 2 Feb 2008, 11:38 pm »
......re the outboard p/s...what about having both an integrated p/s & also the connector for the external such that the SP-3.0 could be ordered either way?

I wonder if having a separate p/s would deflect some potential customers away?.....i mean where the marketing base may be much broader with a surround pre/pro
compared to some of the  more specialized gear in the Bryston line that do have the discrete p/s.

andy

alexone

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Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #16 on: 3 Feb 2008, 09:06 am »
Well, I'm here with a SP1, and not sure the upgrade to the SP2 is worth it at this point, and may go with one of the lower priced pre/pros, like the Onkyo Pro PR-SC885P, or at a even better price point the Denon Pro DN-A7100. Then wait out for the SP3. But, the Onkyo has video processing that I don't need, and both have two few component inputs (need at least four), so all is a compromise.
Thing about Bryston is I really like the separate audio and video philosophy. But, now with HDMI audio things become much more complicated. Most interesting would be a processor with a HDMI that pulls out the audio and passes through the video that would come from an external scalar switcher. Or IEE1394 or some other digital link that would send the digital audio from the scalar/switch to the processor, so as to keep things separate.

Hi All,

So far we are thinking:

1. 3 or 4  rack space high unit with the top rack space able to be populated with a our video switcher or not.
2. It will have 8 HDMI ins and 2 HDMI outs.
3. It will strip the audio out
4. 7.1 balanced out
5. Stereo Balanced in

Question -
1. inboard or outboard power supply?
2. Other types of connectors

james


- usb at the front and back are very useful
- 2 pairs of analog balanced in would be nice
- aes/ebu in (without ''deleting'' the coax connector if in use)
- optical and coax front in
- headphone in
- phono mm/mc option
- bigger display
- outboard power supply yes- if it will be the mps 2 and if it will better the sound
- tape loop

al.
james,

- remote control can operate other bryston components ( vol.up/down, mute). more functions like input selection on bda-1 would be cool.

- what about ipod connectivity? as bryston is probably already interested in an external docking station this might be an option.

al. :wink:


mv038856

Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #17 on: 3 Feb 2008, 01:57 pm »

- usb at the front and back are very useful
- 2 pairs of analog balanced in would be nice
- aes/ebu in (without ''deleting'' the coax connector if in use)
- optical and coax front in
- headphone in
- phono mm/mc option
- bigger display
- outboard power supply yes- if it will be the mps 2 and if it will better the sound
- tape loop


Hi there!

I too like the USB front/back idea and as a SP-2 PRO owner would definitely opt for at least one AES/EBU input, better two - I am thinking about my modified Denon DVD3930 DVD-Player and the Logitech/Slim Devices Transporter that I just ordered, both having AES/EBU outputs...  :wink:

If an external power supply improves the sound quality, I would say go for it. I would recommend that Bryston did some listening tests and decided for the best sounding alternative - just as with the BCD-1 that ended up having an internal power supply.

Having a separate HDMI-switcher that strips the digital audio signal and passes it - maybe in a proprietary format that is jitter-free - to the head unit for decoding sounds like a "That's how Bryston could do it"-solution.

Keeping video signals out of the head unit - due to the effect on the noise floor -  I was wondering whether the digital signal that is at high frequencies as well does something similar to the noise floor! Would a separate digital section improve sound quality? Or should the digital section reside in the HDMI switch enclosure?

Another thing that came to my mind regarding a SP-3 is the question about a true 7.1 analog pass through. Currently the multi channel pass through on the SP-1.7 and SP-2 runs through the digital section. Only the 2 channel bypass uses the analog ALPS potentiometer. Would an 8 channel ALPS poti be an option? Should the SP-3 have an "old fashioned" potentiometer or a discrete resistor based electronic volume control, just like a B-100 or BP-16?

On the things to improve on the SP-2, I'd appreciate a faster lock on the digital input signal. Currently, the unit kills the first 1/2 sec of a song since most sources cut the S/PDIF stream briefly when changing tracks. Maybe an input buffer would be a possible solution, i.e. the SP-3 would play everything with a brief delay, but it would have time to adjust to the input signal and could play back right from the beginning of a track. Maybe the buffering would also improve sound quality!? Being at delaying signals, a lip sync delay feature would be nice as well.

Regarding HDMI switching: a question that arises is whether the switching of HDMI sources should be independent from the sound selection on the SP-3. Further, would the two outputs of the switcher carry the same signal and resolution or would the switcher offer matrix switching and/or some kind of resolution conversion?

The phono option sounds interesting as well.

Although the display is one of the very few things on Bryston digital products that is criticized by reviewers - I am not so sure whether the display is that important, compared to the sound quality. (may be I am biased in this point since my Bryston display is on my Crestron touch panel remote control... :wink:)

With the iPod idea I am not so sure whether Bryston is the company that should offer this. The iPods are new every year. Things on the protocol and connectors might change and Bryston - although trying hard - hasn't always been successful in quickly developing new software to accommodate changes. E.g., the SP-2 has been out for a while now, but Bryston hasn't managed to develop a software specific to the PRO version until now...  :roll:

Regarding remote control, I would opt for a bi-directional RS-232 and/or an ethernet port to grant access for Crestron control systems and the like. Having an ethernet port one could also implement a web interface for setup control - and eliminate the need for an on-screen display.

That's my two cents for today.

Cheers!

Markus

MarcLeger

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Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #18 on: 16 Feb 2008, 09:49 pm »
I have always loved Bryston products and always recommend to others. The main reason I went with my SP1.7 was being led to believe I was "future proof". Obviously technology marches on & changes are needed for the better. I am very happy I didn't upgrade to SP2 as it  would have been a waste. Was foolishly holding out for the new stuff. If there is no upgrade path to SP3 than I'll sell my SP1.7 & go with the new B&K or Integra 9.8. with Benchmark or something. My expectations wont be as high therefore happier in the long run.

If there is an upgrade path I will remain a loyal customer & advocate. For those of you who will just get the new one, I wish I had your disposable income.

Phil A

Re: SP 3.0?
« Reply #19 on: 16 Feb 2008, 10:17 pm »
Same here - sitting with a SP1.7.  I will see what is upgradable or not before I make a decision.  While I don't hate multi-channel music, I prefer 2-channel most of the time and it would not be a big deal for me to suffer with the SP1.7 and use the multi-channel input for a Blu-Ray player at some point and move the cables to my Marantz DV9600 universal player when I wanted to hear SACD or DVD-A.  I'd just be limited to 5.1 which also is not a big deal to me.  I already use my 4 Rel subs for bass management anyway (2 Storm IIIs on the mains, a Q150 on the center and a Strata III on the rears) so that would not be an issue to me.  That being said, I would love some upgrade path with something that had a few more HT features and flexible inputs (e.g. balanced, USB).  I was also led to believe the SP1.7 was future proof.  When I bought the BCD-1 my local dealer was trying to suggest I should buy the SP2 and sell the SP1.7 and I said why?  He really couldn't give a good answer when I told him that neither may be able to be upgraded.  In my situation the main system backs to the bedroom system and using the analog outs of a player would give me an option to use HDMI video in the main system (need a new projector first) and HDMI audio and video in the bedroom system (have a 42 inch LCD with HDMI and just need a new rec'r) so it is also not the end of the world.