[kmanusa]

I am currently using the ML CLS with 2 New Original subs along the back wall placed behind the CLS.  I would like to bring the subs closer to the CLS (preferably in the same plane with the CLS) so that I can use a higher crossover point between the subs and main speakers.  However, my room is not wide enough to place the subs between or outside the CLSs.  One way to fit the subs along side the CLS in my room would be to place the subs on their sides.  I have read some posts here on that and I have a few questions:

1) When placing these subs on their sides, the PR will not be firing into the floor-- is this a problem?
2) If I place the subs on their sides outside the CLS, the PRs will only be inches from the side walls-- is this a suitable substitute for the floor?
3) Previous posts mention a bottom panel for side orientation of the subs--my New Originals did not come with this, is it an option?
4) Has anyone else tried using New Originals with the CLS?

Thanks,
Keith

[woodsyi]

I don't have MLs or the NOS but I have my 2 Largers on the side with the passive radiator firing out with the baseboard removed.  They are fairly close to the wall but I have GIK 4" absorbers between the wall and the passive.  I have no issues with the performance.  I, too, did it to bring the sub drivers to be on plane with the main speaker drivers. 

[John Casler]

I am currently using the ML CLS with 2 New Original subs along the back wall placed behind the CLS.  I would like to bring the subs closer to the CLS (preferably in the same plane with the CLS) so that I can use a higher crossover point between the subs and main speakers.  However, my room is not wide enough to place the subs between or outside the CLSs.  One way to fit the subs along side the CLS in my room would be to place the subs on their sides.  I have read some posts here on that and I have a few questions:

1) When placing these subs on their sides, the PR will not be firing into the floor-- is this a problem?
2) If I place the subs on their sides outside the CLS, the PRs will only be inches from the side walls-- is this a suitable substitute for the floor?
3) Previous posts mention a bottom panel for side orientation of the subs--my New Originals did not come with this, is it an option?
4) Has anyone else tried using New Originals with the CLS?

Thanks,
Keith

Hi Keith,

I think the ITU-like placement you are going for is a good one.

I have used the VMPS subs in countless positions, combinations and orientations.

Currently I have the left and right subs "directly to the sides" with the left sub firing directly at my left ear and right at the right ear.

Although I haven't finished comparison of Stereo, versus Mono signal, I think the positioning you are looking at is better (at least in my room)

That said lets look at your questions:

1) No it is not a problem, but it does require a little putty adjustment.  To my way of thinking, it would need "added mass".  The physics involved would be that since the mass is not being moved "up and down", but now suspended and moved from side to side, it would require more mass to provide the same damping effect.  Additionally the slot will now be open, which would also lead to reduced resistance, requiring more mass to make up for that difference.

2) It will work fine, with the right putty adjustment.

3) That is just a solid piece that attaches to the bottom of the slot.  You could easily have one made from plywood (and painted black).  I have tried it both ways, and felt the "open" version seemed "more open".

4) The VMPS subs (in general) are quite good matches with Ribbons, Electrostatics, and any number of "panel" speakers since they have rather fast reacting drivers, and their "tunability" reduces distortion to very low levels.

Brian's design philosophy has never been one of "overpowering" bass (although some of his historical offerings had that capability, but one of bass accuracy down to the "nether regions".

Even the new VLA's which rank among the best subs made, have an effortless, open clean quality of bass that goes deep with finesse.

At THE SHOW this year, it was amazing how many people came "just to hear the subs".  And they would sit and listen to "cut after cut" of their reference discs and just smile.

[kmanusa]

Thanks guys, this is the input I was looking for.  I am going to try side orientation this weekend.  I'll be sure to adjust the putty on the PR.  I once tried the CLS on top of the NOS and got an excellent blend between subs and mains.  Unfortunately, I didn't like the CLS raised that high (20") so I thought I would try this instead.  Arranging the subs to be coplanar with the mains makes for the best blend although this is not always the best place for the sub bass response.  I guess you pick your priorities and live with them!!

Thanks!
Keith

[warnerwh]

Please remember sub placement can make a large difference.  Even a few inches can change from I'm not sure I like this to wow, this is much better. 

I will concur that placing a New Original on it's side will work fine as I ran one that way with my RM 40s.

[kmanusa]

I moved my NOS so that they are sitting just outside my CLS and positioned vertically with the PRs facing the side walls.  Since my room is only about 13.5 feet wide, this puts the PRs only a few inches from the sidewalls.  After a brief listen it is very clear the blend between the NOS and CLS is much better.  I have also run some 1/3 octave pink noise tests using my Phonic PAA2 spectrum analyzer to confirm what I thought I heard-- much smoother response in the 50-200 Hz range.  I am able to use a higher crossover point (100 Hz) with this set up and I may move it higher still (I have Bryston 10B sub electronic crossover).  I have not yet added putty to the PR-- I did take a pea size amount off a while back to optimize the bass for my setup then.  But the low bass sounds pretty good as-is and the bass is pretty tight and well defined. 

Maybe it isn't the most attactive looking setup but I am quite pleased!

I think these subs are way underated.  They have low distortion and very good extension both on the low end as well as the top end.  The latter is important if I want to use a higher crossover-- I think I can go as high as 250 Hz with the NOS given the smooth resopnse to 300 Hz.  As I recall, I think I ordered the Megawoofer option when I bought them.