T-7 on ebay

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mark funk

T-7 on ebay
« on: 22 Jan 2008, 10:10 pm »
I just saw an older T-7 EC on ebay, last bid was $307.00 with six days to go. :smoke:


avahifi_lj

Re: T-7 on ebay
« Reply #2 on: 23 Jan 2008, 03:54 pm »
Hi:

Here are a few clarifications on the Pas 3 on Ebay:  This is our 1970s Super Pas design where we modified the original Dynaco boards, replaced the volume control (but not the balance control) and modified the power supply.  Note that the photo shows an extra capacitor next to the power supply capacitors that is most likely a repair part hanging off the supply.

The AVA Super Pas was replaced by the AVA Super Pas 2, which was then replaced with the current Super Pas 3.  The Super Pas 3 has new AVA designed audio boards, a new AVA power supply board (replacing the old can power capacitor), and a precision balance and volume control.  In the Super Pas 3 we also move the power transformer to the outside of the chassis to greatly reduce the interaction between the transformer and the audio board, thus lowering the noise floor.

The Super Pas looks good, and it would be a good candidate for a Super Pas 3 upgrade, but the upgrade would be the same as upgrading the stock Dyna Pas.  If you are looking for a chassis to upgrade you may want to see if you can find a cheap stock Dyna Pas preamp that looks good.

Thanks,

Larry

rustneversleeps

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Re: T-7 on ebay
« Reply #3 on: 23 Jan 2008, 04:56 pm »
what's the difference between a Super Pas 2 and a Super Pas 3?

Would a Super Pas 3 with the factory installed buffer board be same as a AVA Super Pas 4i?

Brett Buck

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Re: T-7 on ebay
« Reply #4 on: 23 Jan 2008, 05:23 pm »
The Super Pas looks good, and it would be a good candidate for a Super Pas 3 upgrade, but the upgrade would be the same as upgrading the stock Dyna Pas.  If you are looking for a chassis to upgrade you may want to see if you can find a cheap stock Dyna Pas preamp that looks good.


   Just as a further caution/comment on old Dyna stuff - don't forget that some of this stuff is getting downright ancient. I have taken the task, recently, of restoring a PAS 3 and ST70 for my father. Like many people, I have various bits of Dyna equipment hanging around in various states of disrepair, and of course like most engineers, I am absurdly cheap and like working on things. My father's stuff was built in the early- mid-60s and has had virtually no maintenance since then. It was nicely assembled in the first place, but on opening it up was a very scary thing. The power supply choke in the ST70 was literally burned black including the steel frame, with a huge black spot around it where it had outgassed and deposited the results on the baseplate. Stuff was dripping out of the capacitors, and of course the driver board was burned black under the driver tubes. Despite all this, and the fact that the bias was unsettable, it still worked and was not totally objectionable. The preamp was in even worse shape - the chassis was rusted through the plating in many places, and the interconnects were literally held in place by rust. The old original knobs, cast from zinc and the plated, had what appeared to be the pox. In attempting to remove the tubes from the phono board, I brushed against the solid wiring - and it just broke off. I wasn't pulling on it, just barely touched it, and it broke off at both ends. Other than one of the driver tubes in the ST70, both units had *all the original tubes*. And it's run, on average, probably an hour or two a day since 1964.

     Of course, you can still get all the parts to build an ST70 from scratch, and half-a-dozen different brand-new kits.  When I started looking at restoring the ST70, I started adding up what I needed to restore it to original with the exception of the cut/jump to use 6gh8a tubes (vice the $25 a pop and soon to be unavailable 7199). Yes, I could buy it all - for a grand total exceeding $600. That includes scavenging other units that I have in my storage unit. The chassis and transformers are in good shape (after cleaning up the alarming brown residue from 45 years of cigarette smoke exposure - wow) so I figured I would REALLY fix it and go for a U70 kit for around $500 total. Either a stock ST70 for $600 or a far superior product for a few evenings work and $500. A no brainer.

     The PAS is a another issue - it was just a basket case to restore, and parts are not that easy to get, particularly chassis parts. Once again scavenging was helpful, but it was to the point of a Super PAS kit + complete disassembly of the chassis so I could find someone to clean up and re-plate it, take knobs in decent shape from other units, and an absurd amount of time and money. Normally I would prefer doing it myself to having anyone else (including Frank and company) do it for me, and I am very adept at this sort of thing, but this was ridiculous. So I got the "trick" unit from Frank instead.

     If it weren't for the nostalgia aspect and the fact that my father would be upset with me for "spending too much money", it would be far more cost-effective to just by a AVA integrated amp new and move on with my life. I owe him on the hi-fi front anyway - I released the magic smoke from his Heathkit AA-100 when I was about 14 when I was, uh, "improving" it.

    My point it, beware what you are getting yourself into with some of this older stuff, particularly from eBay or other sources you can't inspect beforehand. ALL of these things are getting very very old and are very likely to be either unmaintained basket cases, or "modified" with who-knows-what changes and (from what I have seen) mostly atrocious worksmanship. My fathers was the former, and I suspect  that many eBay units are the latter. Assume that you are only buying the chassis and maybe some working transformers, and that the chassis may be a basket case in and of itself.

   I started out trying to rework my father's working unit to original condition and making sure it wasn't going to burn down the house. I ended up having to buy a complete aftermarket unit and $500 worth of parts with 20-30 hours of free labor. He will end up with a MUCH better than stock product that will certainly be safe to use. But it was a lot more difficult and costly than even I suspected. Be advised - buying current-production sensibly-priced products will be a whole lot easier and likely yield better results than trying to restore the average 40+ year-old Dyna stuff of random provenance.

     Brett

rustneversleeps

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Re: T-7 on ebay
« Reply #5 on: 23 Jan 2008, 05:59 pm »
The original Dyna that you have described must have been stored in a environmental unfriendly environment, usually they don't rust that bad.

My Dyna set is still all metal, the ST-70 has very little spots, nothing dripping out of the caps and choke, granted, they are from the early 70's.

I have two new Dyna 70 stainless steel chassis, and I am building a 70i on it, then I'll build an ultra on the other chassis.

After I am  all done, I'll have one original Dyna 70, one 70i, one Ultra 70, one Super Pas 3, and one Omega Star preamp.

The cost to build a 70i from the ground up, I figure it's about $500 to $600 max, without figuring in my own labor, and I don't have to buy an used Dyna 70 on Ebay either. It's time consuming, but it's well worth it, if you like this kind of work.

martyo

Re: T-7 on ebay
« Reply #6 on: 23 Jan 2008, 08:18 pm »
Rusty,

You have some nice projects going.  :thumb:

Brett Buck

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Re: T-7 on ebay
« Reply #7 on: 23 Jan 2008, 09:26 pm »
The original Dyna that you have described must have been stored in a environmental unfriendly environment, usually they don't rust that bad.

My Dyna set is still all metal, the ST-70 has very little spots, nothing dripping out of the caps and choke, granted, they are from the early 70's.

   The ST-70 chassis I have is in pretty good shape aside from 45 years of accumulated filth. The chrome helped considerably. The PAS chassis is in dire shape, with all the jack completely red with rust and "crunching" sounds when you attach/detach the interconnects. The rear and bottom of the chassis is about 30/70 rust/cad plating. Inside it's mostly OK (clean since there's no vents on top to let in dirt). This one has the cast zinc knobs (as opposed to the later solid machined aluminum) and gray/white corrosion is peppered all over, poking through the plating. The faceplate is mostly OK.  I was looking into stripping. sanding, and then having the chassis part plated (with zinc of cadmium). It could have been assembled into a working unit with a Super PAS kit including jacks and selector switch, but it would have looked like a 40-year-old piece of junk. Probably doesn't matter but if I am going to go to the trouble of fixing it I want to REALLY fix it into a brand-new quality unit. Or in this case, just buy one already in that shape for about the same money. Pretty easy decision but that's just me.

   Actually it was harder decision to get another PAS or something better like a T7, T8, or Omega. Or punt the whole project and buy a Omega integrated amp. The only reason I didn't was because my dad wanted what he had fixed  and he only agreed to it on that basis - and would have been upset that I was "spending all that money on him". This way he may just think I "fixed" it and will have no idea what it costs. I won't lie to him if he asks, but I won't go out of my way to point it out.
 
 I had a good idea what I was getting into on the ST-70 since I have built/repaired many of those for my hi-fi buddies over the years. Always with AT LEAST the Frank input filter mod. Despite my prodding, none of them have ever gone for the full Super 70 or Ultimate. The PAS was a bit of a surprise.

   I pointed this all out only to say that from a practical standpoint, given the usual prices for these things on eBay, etc, it's not always a very good idea. If you just like doing it, then that's a different story

     Brett

rustneversleeps

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Re: T-7 on ebay
« Reply #8 on: 24 Jan 2008, 02:32 am »
Word of caution: DO NOT sand your old corroded vintage chassis, I've heard that the cadmium dust from the plating is extremely poisonous. It should be professionally done, but I don't think it'd be worth the cost.

I bought my Dyna 70 and Pas several years ago when the prices for them were still reasonable. Lately the price for these Dyna gear have been overly inflated on Ebay, so it's not cost effective to buy them then modify them. I'll leave my Dyna 70 in it's original condition.

I would build a Super Pas 3 on a new rack mount project box with handles, if I didn't already have a Dyna Pas. That would look real nice.

Several years ago, this gentleman who was a machinist and had his own shop, he was a big Dyna fan, or a vintage audio fan for that matter. He experimented he metal machining skill by re-manufacturing over a hundred Dyna 70 chassis with stainless steel, but the chrome plating didn't turn out as shiny as the original. He was selling them for $75 a piece. I immediately bought two of them.

Then he made another batch of Dyna 70 chassis with different plating process and they turned out shiner then the first batch, but I like the first batch better, they are solid stainless steel, the silkscreen is perfect like the original, very high quality. These are the two chassis that I'll build my 70i and Ultra 70 on. Then later, I bought a couple of old Dyna 70 cages off Ebay for $40 each. As you can see, chassis alone cost me $115 each, but it would cost more I had bought them new (they are being re-manufactured).

I bought a Dyna Pat-4 for $30, and I bought the Omega Star board from Frank for $100, parts cost me about another $100 or so (parts for the project itself doesn't cost that much, but there are minimum purchase I had to make on certain parts from the parts companies). Gathering parts is the most difficult stage of the project, the parts that you order may not be the correct style for the circuit board, so I try to order everything I need in one order, and try not to miss anything, it's hard, believe me.

I provide my own time, soldering and wiring skill, keep in mind that I am building the Omega Star on a Pat-4 and not a Pat-5 chassis, so the wiring and the power supply is not as straight forward, that's no assembling manual for the Pat-4 from Frank. Frank has been a great help whenever I have questions.

When it's all said and done, the cost for this Omega Star preamp will be about $230.00 without the gold jacks, and the new fiberglass selector switch, I don't think Frank has these parts, the Omega Star Preamp kit is designed for the Pat-5, not the Pat-4. I like to build thing and learn how they work. I have old time electronic background, like using the soldering iron. Building audio project and learning about electronics at the same time, I love it.

Hey, can anyone tell me how to upload pictures, so I can show off my work?






Brett Buck

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Re: T-7 on ebay
« Reply #9 on: 24 Jan 2008, 05:01 am »
Word of caution: DO NOT sand your old corroded vintage chassis, I've heard that the cadmium dust from the plating is extremely poisonous. It should be professionally done, but I don't think it'd be worth the cost.
 

   With long-term exposure, maybe a bit. Plenty of it is coming off on it's own accord. Once every 46 years, for a few minutes, probably not an issue.

 
Quote

I bought my Dyna 70 and Pas several years ago when the prices for them were still reasonable. Lately the price for these Dyna gear have been overly inflated on Ebay, so it's not cost effective to buy them then modify them. I'll leave my Dyna 70 in it's original condition.

I would build a Super Pas 3 on a new rack mount project box with handles, if I didn't already have a Dyna Pas. That would look real nice.

Several years ago, this gentleman who was a machinist and had his own shop, he was a big Dyna fan, or a vintage audio fan for that matter. He experimented he metal machining skill by re-manufacturing over a hundred Dyna 70 chassis with stainless steel, but the chrome plating didn't turn out as shiny as the original. He was selling them for $75 a piece. I immediately bought two of them.

Then he made another batch of Dyna 70 chassis with different plating process and they turned out shiner then the first batch, but I like the first batch better, they are solid stainless steel, the silkscreen is perfect like the original, very high quality. These are the two chassis that I'll build my 70i and Ultra 70 on. Then later, I bought a couple of old Dyna 70 cages off Ebay for $40 each. As you can see, chassis alone cost me $115 each, but it would cost more I had bought them new (they are being re-manufactured).

I bought a Dyna Pat-4 for $30, and I bought the Omega Star board from Frank for $100, parts cost me about another $100 or so (parts for the project itself doesn't cost that much, but there are minimum purchase I had to make on certain parts from the parts companies). Gathering parts is the most difficult stage of the project, the parts that you order may not be the correct style for the circuit board, so I try to order everything I need in one order, and try not to miss anything, it's hard, believe me.

I provide my own time, soldering and wiring skill, keep in mind that I am building the Omega Star on a Pat-4 and not a Pat-5 chassis, so the wiring and the power supply is not as straight forward, that's no assembling manual for the Pat-4 from Frank. Frank has been a great help whenever I have questions.

When it's all said and done, the cost for this Omega Star preamp will be about $230.00 without the gold jacks, and the new fiberglass selector switch, I don't think Frank has these parts, the Omega Star Preamp kit is designed for the Pat-5, not the Pat-4. I like to build thing and learn how they work. I have old time electronic background, like using the soldering iron. Building audio project and learning about electronics at the same time, I love it.

    Good stuff! I have plenty of time on the old soldering iron, myself. In addition to the electronics, I've made hundreds of fuel tanks for me and my buddies' model airplanes. There's an old-school hobby - design/build/adjust/finish everything from scratch and you get judged on both airplane appearance and the piloting skills.   This ain't the stuff you get at Tower Hobbies!

     Brett