[Rudolf]

Erling,
I´m no spider! I don´t have my eyes in every direction.

So thanks very much for guiding me to MJKs new study. Haven´t seen it before.
You may have noticed that I am sounding the trumpet for the H-frame for quite a while. So I´m really grateful to MJK that he is showing what can be achieved (or not) with U- and H-frames compared to pure OBs. The icing on the cake would have been a comparison of the polar diagrams for different frequencies.

We are never contend with what we get, ain´t we?

[mcgsxr]

For a biamp guy like myself, seeking to redesign my baffles for decreased floor space, and increased WAF, I found the articles very interesting, even though I am not the specific target market.

I suspect I will go with the U baffle, in order to hit the deeper bass, and the drop in efficiency can easily be made up with my sub amp.

Nice catch, and thanks for sharing!

[Telstar]

how could i have missed this thread?

[Telstar]

BTW, Rudolf, how are you liking the Peerless SLS 12"?

I'm thinking to use the same (a pair per side), but I also saw some nice visaton 12". No idea of price yet.

http://www.visaton.de/de/chassis_zubehoer/tiefton/w300s_8.html
and che cheaper one
http://www.visaton.de/de/chassis_zubehoer/tiefton/w300_8.html

What do you think?

[Rudolf]

BTW, Rudolf, how are you liking the Peerless SLS 12"?

I have to admit that I still don´t use them in a permanent system because I´m sidetracked all the time. But from testing I know that they will do very well. Somehow the SLS seem to be the stamped frame drivers with the build quality of a good cast frame driver. Their venting system is light years ahead of those Visatons you are mentioning. The W300 does not even have venting to speak of. Xlin (8mm) is well ahead of the Visatons (5 mm) too. Depending on the Xover frequency you may want to damp the frame legs a bit.

If you look around you will see the SLS series used in dipoles all the time. I don´t remember a dipole project with the Visaton W300 series.

BTW: I am amazed how fast you have been moving from a "no compromise accepted" attitude to the lowlands of value drivers.   . It´s a lot more fun around here.

[Telstar]

Somehow the SLS seem to be the stamped frame drivers with the build quality of a good cast frame driver. Their venting system is light years ahead of those Visatons you are mentioning. The W300 does not even have venting to speak of. Xlin (8mm) is well ahead of the Visatons (5 mm) too. Depending on the Xover frequency you may want to damp the frame legs a bit.

If you look around you will see the SLS series used in dipoles all the time. I don´t remember a dipole project with the Visaton W300 series.

BTW: I am amazed how fast you have been moving from a "no compromise accepted" attitude to the lowlands of value drivers.   . It´s a lot more fun around here.

Budget issues
But I'm still trying to get an excellent sound. And I can always upgrade the drivers in the future or make something new.

I ran some simulations and I agree that those Visatons are totally inferior to the Peerless SLS.
What do you think instead of the Eminence Beta 12A2*?
I's really looking good in my sim.

Same cheap price, slightly higher SPL in my xbaffle sim.

*"The 12A-2 has more Xmax and is a better bass woofer."

[Telstar]

[Rudolf]

What do you think instead of the Eminence Beta 12A2*?
I's really looking good in my sim.

Sorry, I don´t know any longer, what the actual boundary conditions of your project are. Baffle size, efficiency, other drivers? You seem to be fixed to max. efficiency? Or is it max absolute SPL? Could you give a brief summary, from where I could better judge, what the actual goals are?

Rudolf

[Telstar]

What do you think instead of the Eminence Beta 12A2*?
I's really looking good in my sim.

Sorry, I don´t know any longer, what the actual boundary conditions of your project are. Baffle size, efficiency, other drivers? You seem to be fixed to max. efficiency? Or is it max absolute SPL? Could you give a brief summary, from where I could better judge, what the actual goals are?

Rudolf

Yes, sure.
Bass reinforcement 30-100hz roughly. Boost @ 35-30hz and XO done with the reckhorn B1, then amped with an alesis ra300.
Baffle 30-35cm wide + wings (havent decided the exact size. In Xbaffle i put 60cm which equals to 30cm width + 15cm wings,but they probably will be longer but sloped). For the height I have no probs, depending on the drivers i can go between 100 and 130cm.
Up there will be either a fullranger or a mid + tweeter, powered by my F3.

The goal for the bass is neither efficiency nor max SPL, it's transparency and quickness to keep up with the upper range.

Forgot to say that the baffles will be pretty close to rear wall (about 60cm).

[Rudolf]

Telstar,

I compared the following drivers:
Peerless SLS 12 (green)
Eminence Beta 12a 2 (blue)
Visaton W300 (red)
Visaton WHC 30 X (lilac)





The Visaton drivers have been simulated from actual frequency range measurements, the Peerless and Eminence from TSP only. Data will be comparable only to ~300 Hz.

As you can see, the Peerless will give you the maximum SPL down to 30 Hz, the Eminence the least.
If the SLS is beyond your budget, the Visaton WHC 30 X would be a real bargain at 30 Euro from
http://www.conrad-int.com/websale7/VISATON-WHC-30-X--8-OHM-HIFI-TIEFT%d6NER.htm?Ctx=%7bver%2f7%2fver%7d%7bst%2f3eb%2fst%7d%7bcmd%2f0%2fcmd%7d%7bm%2fwebsale%2fm%7d%7bs%2fconrad%2dint%2fs%7d%7bl%2fint%2fl%7d%7bmi%2fSHOP%5fAREA%5f17478%5f1312034%2fmi%7d%7bpi%2f310669%2fpi%7d%7bpo%2f1%2fpo%7d%7bfc%2fx%2ffc%7d%7bp1%2f6a0a9453b4c8ea628dbd1d8d2e35393b%2fp1%7d%7bmd5%2ff34fc2f24e7f5b8fb015dcd424d0aebf%2fmd5%7d

As I already mentioned, quality wise the SLS is in another league compared to the competitors. I don´t know of any comparable 12" driver <100 Euro that could keep up.

[Telstar]

Hi Rudolf,

I sent you an email.