New speaker from Gradient

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Polarbear

New speaker from Gradient
« on: 13 Jan 2008, 06:54 pm »


http://www.gradient.fi/helsinki15/

Strangely with a dipole woofer on the side. I wonder how they have thought this out? (listener in the dipole null area?)




Cheers

Bjørn


Dmason

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Re: New speaker from Gradient
« Reply #1 on: 13 Jan 2008, 08:23 pm »
Listener in the dipole-null area... what convinces you they thought it out?  :thumb: The pole position will be in the Cone of Silence.

Bjorn, yours is a more advanced execution, if for this reason alone...

Folsom

Re: New speaker from Gradient
« Reply #2 on: 13 Jan 2008, 09:22 pm »
Do you stand while listening to them?

Rudolf

Re: New speaker from Gradient
« Reply #3 on: 13 Jan 2008, 09:45 pm »
I believe this design is full of really interesting ideas regarding optimal loudspeaker radiation into a room. Baffle sizes and radiation patterns seem to be very well thought out. I wonder how JohnK would think about it ... 

scorpion

Re: New speaker from Gradient
« Reply #4 on: 14 Jan 2008, 12:56 am »
As they have a very good dipole bass history, they should not go wrong there.
The rest doesn't seem to be dipole at all, may be (some kind of) aperiodic mid ?
And a waveguide treble to make a CES impression ?

/Erling

JohninCR

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Re: New speaker from Gradient
« Reply #5 on: 14 Jan 2008, 05:33 pm »
If there's no subwoofers hiding somewhere, my guess would be that they must be playing games with the phase of the left vs the right woofer.  Since it's pretty much mono down low, simply wiring one woofer out of phase + careful placement may actually work to broaden the bass sound field.  I doubt they'll handle Pink Floyd with authority, but after using woofers with no baffles at all, I believe anything is possible with OB.  While out in a field it's not possible to get bass out of a sideways OB woofer orientation, everything changes in-room.  I've even seen dipole subs for corner use with woofers and small baffles oriented like that, so they may not even be messing with the phase and only placement is the key.

tubamark

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Re: New speaker from Gradient
« Reply #6 on: 16 Jan 2008, 04:51 pm »
My bet is that they are phased normal, firing toward each other:  If the midbass is a resistively damped cardioid (much different than simple aperiodic. See Liknkwitz's pages - extremely calculated), along with a waveguide tweeter and Dipole woofer there would essentially no rearward radiation, which enables placement against the front wall . . . which matches what is going on in the photo!

The bass nulls in the listener zone would be pretty narrow, and only experienced when sitting directly on axis of either speaker, well off the sweet spot.  as you move off-center into the null of one speaker, you are also moving closer to the sidewall/front corner --which is on the axis of strongest radiation-- AND are moving slightly more on-axis to the farther speaker.  The nulls could be very hard to hear in this configuration!

The catch is that the rest of the speaker, from a few hundred Hz on up better be directional to keep from sounding colored & smeared like a regular box speaker against the front wall.
 
I've experimented with U-frame woofers along the front wall, firing toward each other.  It does 'work' as long as you are sitting not too far off the sweet spot.  The biggest downside is that it puts the bass well 'behind' the rest of my dipole system - 'starts to sound slow like the familiar corner box sub.
Gradient may have solved that problem here, at the expense of the dipole "sound"/reflections that some listeners prefer.

Has anybody seen literature or talked with the vendor?
If they recommend placement close to the front wall, and specify a range from the sidewall, I'm on track.  I can't see how this arrangement would work very well if placed 5 feet from the front wall . . . or in a room that is unusually wide.

I could be totally wrong here . . . If so, at least we have some new ideas to try!

-- Tubamark