[TheChairGuy]

Denon slipped back into supplying turntables a couple years ago, Marantz is back, now I have heard of Creek and even McIntosh offering turntables for sale...and never have previously. (btw, Denon, Marantz and McIntosh are all divisions of D&M Holdings now, so the suits at this $750 million Japanese company probably see something the general masses may not be seeing or hearing)

This 'mania' can only be sustained by enough SOFTWARE titles - and I don't know of enough pressing plants worldwide or artists currently interested in vinyl releases.  It's still relatively small-fry numbers of albums we are likely talking of, so there is still relatively small commercial interest in making new software for the small niche 

It is exciting to see that greater numbers of folks are listening to vinyl for the first time and accepting it as a (potentially) great music format, and welcoming back a turntable into their homes after a long absence and unfulfilled dalliance with Redbook/CD.  But, without fresh, new and abundant software I cannot see how this resurgence can be maintained 

John

[hurdy_gurdyman]

I'm sure hoping more folks start hearing about the vinyl resurgence and start buying records. Record companies will only start making lots more titles available when sales start jumping upward. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Dave

[bacobits1]

I would love to buy NEW vinyl. But it's been too expensive.
For example, "Rasing Sand", Robert Plant, Allison Krauss, $59!!
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B000V9KE1U/ref=sr_1_olp_4?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1200157845&sr=1-4
I guess I will have to stick with used vinyl.


Den

[Wayner]

I have seen the effects o f the resurgence as the used record shop prices have gone up by at least a third. I have bought some new, but a $30, there won't be many. Used around here vary from $2 up to $5 on average.

Wayner

[TheChairGuy]

Vinyl is a petrochemical.....it's price is directly affected by the cost of oil.  Making a vinyl record is an energy intensive process...further adding to the cost.

This will definitely dim prospects for any vinyl resurgence....cost matters to consumers more than ever with other prices rising in their lives, too, at the same time 

[PeteG]

Vinyl is a petrochemical.....it's price is directly affected by the cost of oil.  Making a vinyl record is an energy intensive process...further adding to the cost.

This will definitely dim prospects for any vinyl resurgence....cost matters to consumers more than ever with other prices rising in their lives, too, at the same time 

You hit that dead on (oil,oil,oil).

[twitch54]

I would love to buy NEW vinyl. But it's been too expensive.
For example, "Rasing Sand", Robert Plant, Allison Krauss, $59!!
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B000V9KE1U/ref=sr_1_olp_4?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1200157845&sr=1-4
I guess I will have to stick with used vinyl.


Den

I payed $19.95 for mine from www.musicdirect.com, back in Nov.

[Wayner]

I just found an album I've been looking for on Ebay for $8 (XTC, Oranges and Lemons sealed 2LP's 180gm). Unfortunately, even with media mail shipping and small handling fee it's almost $12.

Last summer, I ran into this elderly gal who's son was in the service, stationed in Germany. She had about 1000 of his albums that supposedly he played only once to put onto reel-to-reel tape. I bought the whole shebang for .45 cents each. Out of the collection where about 30 MFSL recordings, Pink Floyd Dark Side of the Moon in totally mint condition, plus gobbs of Dylan, Allman brothers, Moody Blues, Steely Dan....turned out to be a real good deal. That is a way to aquire records. Put an add in the local paper and see what happens.

W

[Songforyou]

I have no idea what the $59 for Raising Sand on Amazon is about.  It has been one of the least expensive new releases I purchased recently.  $23 here in Canada for a double album! http://diamondgroove.com/detail.aspx?ID=3793

[Russell Dawkins]

Vinyl is a petrochemical.....it's price is directly affected by the cost of oil.  Making a vinyl record is an energy intensive process...further adding to the cost.

This will definitely dim prospects for any vinyl resurgence....cost matters to consumers more than ever with other prices rising in their lives, too, at the same time 

I can't imagine the actual cost for the raw vinyl amounts to much per disc - I would guess a few pennies - and this would be swamped by other manufacturing and marketing (not to speak of copyright) considerations. Actual retail costs for small numbers of pressed vinyl discs with paper sleeves is about $1, including margin for pressing plant.

http://www.recordtech.com/vinyl.htm

[lazydays]

let me tell you a story:
Brother comes down for a visit, and to borrow some tools of mine (hope he keeps them). We are tuning a pair of speakers (toe in and basic room placement). I have several LP's that I use for this in no certain order. One of the LP's from the Allman Brothers Live At The Fillmore East (I was there). I use it for imaging and depth, as well as three or four other LP's. Anyway the tune is "You Don't Love Me." Brother sets down in my favorite overstuffed chair and listens. Asked me to play that side again; OK I did. I asked him if he knew that I had that on CD? Then I played the same thing on CD thru my Jolida. It was OK, but nothing special. Cued up the LP's again with something from Santana, after another ten minutes or so he said he wished he'd kept his turntable. Well about three days later he calls me up, and asked me to install a cartridge on his new turntable ( a Jap direct drive with a Grado cartridge). Need I say anymore? Now he wants something better, and he wants something noticably better. I told him to find a nice heavy table first, and then we'd take the bull by the horns. Jerry Raskins is gonna really like him when all this is said and done! The same thing has happened with each of my sons. They all said the CD player was the last word. Ask them now.
     Funny thing about each and everyone of them was that they just couldn't quite put a finger on why the music was better, but it was. This year I expect to be setting up turntables for three of my kids as they want one.
gary
P.S. the samething happened when I introduced them to tubes.

[toocool4]

I don’t know about Vinyl resurgence? For me vinyl never went away.

Yes TheChairGuy I think there are more new vinyl players come out then ever before, everybody appears to be making one.

I was in Amsterdam a while ago and on my travels I found a nice little record shop. Speaking to the owner while I was looking at the records he told me CD shops are closing down and more vinyl shops opening. The reason he gave for this was that Download is killing the CD market in Amsterdam and people are turning back to vinyl.

A lot of new releases are still coming out on vinyl but they tend to be in limited quantities, so you need to be on the ball to get them. Yes most are that bit more expensive they tend to be good pressings as most of the bad record pressing plants have closed down.
Even if not a lot of new releases came out there is a wealth of back catalogue material out there. Check out second had shops, boot fairs etc plenty vinyl to be had.

Chris   

[osageaudioproducts]

Hello All,

I think that the resurgence of vinyl is certainly taking place, but what many of those in what we think of as the "audiophile community" aren't aware of is that we aren't the group that's driving the resurgence.

Take a look here:  http://entertainment.circuitcity.com/Music/Dcs.aspx?Format=LP+Vinyl.  Circuit City carries 10,621 new LP titles in stock, and offers free shipping on orders of $25.00 or more.  Granted, many of these are Hip-Hop and Rap, but what we may be looking for is here as well.  Importantly, it seems that the Hip-Hop and Rap crowd has had a lot to do with the format surviving and with the current popularity.

There is also an increase in popularity of records among teenagers.  They follow the Hip-Hop and Rap scene and are also discovering their parents records from the '60's and '70's.  Interestingly enough, they like the music that their parents listened to more than the new stuff to a large degree.  This surge is being driven by the fact that the teenagers have the records at hand and most of these records are not available for download or in any other format.  And they do like much of the music better.

Another group that is involved in this is the newly empty nester who has been raising kids and has not spent much time listening to the stereo for many years, and probably doesn't even have one anymore.  The now have more time and money and are looking for a way back in.  Unfortunately, they aren't finding it easy to get back in with the way that stereo shops operate today as compared to the way that they did in the 1970's.  If I hadn't had local guidance when I got back in about 8 years ago I would have likely just given up.

None of this is speculation on my part.  Being in the business I spend most of my time talking to customers, dealers, and other manufacturers in the industry.  While our Audio Intelligent Vinyl Solutions business has continued to quickly grow each month since December 2006 within the audiophile community, our largest growth has been with customers that we would not consider to be part of the audiophile community as it seems to currently be defined.  These "non-audiophile" customers now make up close to 90% of our business.  I find that to be very interesting, and unexpected.

This is all something to think about.  I think that we will continue to see more and more vinyl releases.  Many are no more expensive than the CD version.  Collectable, heavyweight, and 45 rpm releases are generally the most expensive.  And remember, a CD with over 50 minutes or so of music will require a double album on vinyl, thus making it more expensive.  Is it worth it?  You have to answer that question for yourself.

Happy listening.

Jim Pendleton
Osage Audio Products, LLC

[TheChairGuy]

Hey Jim - thanks for chiming in with your 'birds-eye' view of things. Always great to get proper perspective 

About Circuit City...I had no idea they 'stocked' LP's again.  Which is certainly good and hi-profile for LP's.  Most likely, they aren't carrying them at all....they are likely listing them and having a 3rd party do the shipping for them.  10,000 titles is a lot of titles and inventory costs to carry in one centralized warehouse.

I suspect this as CC has a very aggressive online division.  Tho known for their electronics, they sell all manner of products online thru 3rd party shippers...such as portable hand trucks (online only and not in their stores): http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/Search.do?c=1&searchType=user&keyword=magna+cart&searchSection=All&go.x=5&go.y=11

ha! - those are my hand trucks sold by Circuit City.....and I don't know a soul there in Midlothian, VA where they are based.  A master distributor that we sell does drop-shipping for them of our Magna Carts. They sell quite a few each month....and we never met any of them.

Anyhow, anywhere LP's can be sold, increases the chances of a successful resurgence meethinks.

John

[osageaudioproducts]

Hello Mr. TheChairGuy,

Thanks for the post.  I have one of your Magnacarts that I use at trade shows.

My understanding is that Circuit City does stock some items, but LP's aren't available at any of their stores.  They would tell you that "these things don't sell very well."  Of course they won't is few know that they have them.  It seems that they are operating like the "high-end audio industry" in respect to LP's and probably don't even know it.

One of the main points that I hoped to pass along is that the portion of the population that has an interest in, and does listen to records is highly splintered.  I don't remember it being that way 30 or 35 years ago.  In fact, this phenomenon extends into playback equipment as well.  I don't think this has been consumer driven so much as industry driven.

Best regards.

Jim Pendleton
Osage Audio Products, LLC

[Wayner]

I have several young friends, children of my friends that have gotten into vinyl. Maybe it is from my influence, but all of their parents have records and at one time or another, a turntable. As the kids have found tables, the parents have either dug theirs out or have acquired new ones. The kids that I know dislike hip-hop and rap and that is why they dug into their parents album collections. One kid in particular, Dave, loves Pink Floyd, the Doors and Elvis...I don't know how that all fits...but who cares. For the most part, they are oblivious to setting up the table and I don't think they really care (cause I set it up for them), they are happy to just play away. Of course this has led to buying Vintage Marantz receivers and Dynaco speakers on Ebay and I have to get them going too, but what the hell. I know Dave listens to vinyl for hours and sometimes his dad joins in. The little rats have also cleaned out the local record shop of many of the used albums I had an interest in so now we are competing to see who gets what and for how much. Dave was also bitching the other day that the Audio Technica AT440MLa has gone up in price as he needs a new cart. It's funny to listen to them as they are starting to sound like us.

[TONEPUB]

I don't know either..

The buzz at CES this year was mostly music servers and ways to get your iPod integrated into your
system, along with a lot of people making or introducing DAC's again.

Don't get me wrong, I love vinyl, still have five turntables and a lot of records.
I just think it's really the convenience thing as much as sound.

Personally, CD players have gotten so much better in the last few years especially,
it's not like it used to be where a 500 dollar turntable sounded way better than a
few thousand dollar CD player.

Also, a lot of LP remasters (not audiophile releases) have been re-released from
digital masters, so they don't sound any better than CD's anyway.

I hope that if it can continue, it is with great quality stuff, because that's the
only way LP is worth the effort in my book. If the choice is between an LP
pressed from older digital masters or a CD, I'd just as soon have the CD...

Much easier to take care of.

So, here's to the future of high quality LP's!

[Wayner]

I just got back from the local antique store. They said the kids were nuts yesterday, buying albums. The little buggers cleaned out all of the Led Zepplin, Kiss and Ozzy/Black Sabboth stuff. That's OK 'cause I got all I need of that stuff.

I did pick up a mint Pat Matheny Group and Planet P for the wopping sum of $4.25+tax. The Matheny album has zero noise...so far.

TONEPUB, I just like the involvement of vinyl. I certainly don't mind flippin' records. I do like my CD's too.

[blakep]

I think Tonepub has hit upon the most critical factor a few posts above. If there is to be any "vinyl resurgence" (and frankly, as much as I would like there to be one I doubt it will happen), it will be predicated on the following (in what I would consider to be my order of importance):

1) high quality analog recording and mastering of the original performance

2) high quality pressing of vinyl without warps, surface noise problems, etc.

3) affordable high quality vinyl, ie. under $30, preferably under $25 for records

The recording industry has shown that, for the most part, they're not interested in providing one of the above, let alone all three, so I'm pretty pessimistic.

[osageaudioproducts]

Thanks for all for the responses to this post.  As I mentioned before, I have my ear to the ground just a little, being involved in the business.  And it's not just to the ground in terms of what is defined as the audiophile market is doing.  The larger market would seem to have a lot to do with this.

First, the popularity is not being driven solely by newly released vinyl.  It is being primarily driven by those who have found music that they like on vinyl that is not available in other formats.  There's a lot of it.

Yes, analog production of the LP can certainly result in better sound, but not necessarily.  The more important point is that the larger part of the market for records currently couldn't care less.

As a buyer of a lot of new records, I believe that it's true that the quality of records being released today is better than those released 35 years ago, for example.  I do get one occasionally that has a bit of a warp.  I'm always able to get these to play just fine.  As far as surface noise goes, the research and testing that we've done has led us to the conclusion that the noise is mostly caused by dirt, and by playing the record when it is dirty.  Pressing plants don't clean the records before they package them, nor do they clean CD's before they package them.

Most of the records that I buy new are priced between $13.49 and $19.99.  These are generally not 180 gram slabs, but that is not necessarily a prerequisite for good sound.  In my opinion the 45 rpm LP's are a larger sound quality leap that the heavyweight vinyl LP's.

Thanks for all of your thoughts.  Happy listening.

Jim Pendleton
Osage Audio Products, LLC