[AliG]

A friend of mine recently bought these beautiful speakers - Usher Be-10,


This guy has some deep pocket He bought a bunch of expensive electronics but he's not happy with the sound

Here's what he bought:

(1) Meridian 808i Signature Reference CDP (he also has Ayre C-5xe, EMM Lab CDSA)

(2) Cary Audio SLP 05 Preamp ( he also has Mark Levinson No 326S pre)

(3) Mark Levinson 436 monoblock (he also has Cary Audio CAD 211 amp 110 watts/ch)

He has previously bought and sold JM-Lab Alto Utopia. The guy was in a serious emotional distress because no matter how much he spent, he just couldn't find the 'perfect' sound that he's looking for. He has lost all the hopes then because he began to think that the "perfect" sound he's been looking for is simply not attainable.

It all changed yesterday... he came to my room and listened to my system, in a 11x13ft fully treated room, with the following gears:
- Bolder Digitally Modified SB3 (only using the digital out)
- Aberdeen Component Fully Modified Tact 2.0S
- Moscode 401HR with Telefunken 12AU7 smooth plates as outer tubes
- Salk Veracity HT3
- Acoustiz Zen Satori Shotgun bi-wire, Electra Cable IC, Virtual Dynamics Nite, David power cords, Black Sand Silver Reference Mk V power cords, Running Springs Haley.

And he went "gaga" (speechless) the moment I played the first Dianna Krall... he said that's the "perfect" sound he's looking for. He's impressed with the 3D soundstage, all instruments (vocal) seems to float around occupying their own distinctive space, there's a lot of details but not up to the point where its' fatigueing. The vocal is extremely transparent with no trace of muffiness, as if the singer is singing to you in the same room without the microphone. He cannot think of any aspect of the sound that he wants to improve on.  (Strange...I have never met a guy who share the same taste as me... )

And he got even more distressed when I told him how much I spent on my system (less than the price of a new JM-Lab Alto ). And he's tied up with so many equipments and he'd have a hard time selling all of them. I told him he does not have to sell all his equipments, I have never heard of the Usher Be-10 speakers but I believe it's a very capable speakers. I recalled at RMAF07 that many people seems to think that the Usher speakers is best driven by Belles amp.

So here's the question, assuming he is going to keep his speaker, what other electronics would you suggest for him to try out. I have never heard of Mark Levinson gears and have no clue how they sound.

[martyo]

AVA all the way. 

[AB]

Is his room treated?

If not, I would manage that first. Regardless of what gear he has or will get, room treatments will improve its sound.

[Cacophonix]

He can spend all the money he wants on the equipment .. unless the room is treated right, he won't know how his gear sounds.

[mdconnelly]

I've also got an Aberdeen modded Tact 2.0s and if your system is anything like mine, this made a huge difference.  It also goes a long way to controling a room that may otherwise not be treated.  Why not help him by lugging your Tact over to his place for a few hours, taking measurements in his system and see what you get?   

P.S.  I've heard the Usher Be20 speakers and I have to say that his Be10s are NOT where his problem lies.   They are very nice speakers.

Mike

[AliG]

Mike,
   Sorry to sidetrack a little. Which version of the power supply and DAC card have you got from Aberdeen?????  I have his version-6...and it's just getting better and better and better... aa aa

I've also got an Aberdeen modded Tact 2.0s and if your system is anything like mine, this made a huge difference. 

[mdconnelly]

Mike,
   Sorry to sidetrack a little. Which version of the power supply and DAC card have you got from Aberdeen?????  I have his version-6...and it's just getting better and better and better... aa aa

Good question... I bought mine used about a year ago and the mods were done probably 6 months or so before that.   It has Anthony's full monty plus I had him mod an ADC board as well.   I didn't realize Anthony even assigned version #s to his mods.

But I do believe the Tact can have a dramatic effect on a system, much more so with Anthony's mods - particularly if the room itself is not treated (which mine isn't since it is also our living room so WAF applies).

If you do try out your Tact in your friend's room, I'd love to hear about the results...
Mike

[Double Ugly]

   Sorry to sidetrack a little.

FWIW, it's your thread; sidetrack all you want. 

[*Scotty*]

AliG, It looks like now would be a good time to haul your equipment sans speakers over to your friends house and do some comparisons.
Maybe you two can figure out where things went south short of his loudspeakers. He might not have to chuck everything and start over.
Scotty

[satfrat]

I'm willing to bet that the man's power conditioning went a long way toward his going  . 

[Bill Baker]

Hello Alig,
 You mention he "recently" purchased the Usher BE speakers. Aside from the room treatments (very important) could it also be an issue of burn-in on the speakers or even system as a whole. If he bought these new and they don't have much time on them, his evaluation may be premature?

[BobM]

I've also heard ga-ga, stupid money systems that don't sound that great to me. But with a little setup help (speaker positioning predominantly) they definitely sounded better, and with room treatments and power conditioners, better still.

Try the cheap and easy route first before your friend decides to chuck it all and buy your system, only to find out it's not better.

Enjoy,
Bob

[AliG]

Bill,
   He bought it from a dealer demo in Missisipi back in December 2007, so perhaps burn-in is not the biggest issue. He told me that he put his speaker in his living room, so I think the room acoustic is the major issue. He lived in a rented apartment right now so I've told him to look for a house with a big enough room and I'll help him to do the room treatment.

Hello Alig,
 You mention he "recently" purchased the Usher BE speakers. Aside from the room treatments (very important) could it also be an issue of burn-in on the speakers or even system as a whole. If he bought these new and they don't have much time on them, his evaluation may be premature?

[vman71]

I would agree with those that have previously mentioned room treatments, speaker positioning, and power conditioning.  Often times, these three items are overlooked and not properly addressed.

[nathanm]

My speakers probably cost as much as the shipping crates for that stuff,  but when I once heard them in another room I had a similar reaction.  At that point I knew I was done experimenting with equipment and that progress was only going to be attainable by acoustical changes.  Part of the sales pitch is of course Diana Krall's records which are the peanut butter on the audiophile mousetrap.  It's kind of the equivalent of the little THX video on DVDs.  Who wouldn't be impressed?  Of course when the hi-fi honeymoon is over you may come to the realization that not EVERY record has that same saliva-crackling, floaty hot chick sound and that eventually you'll need some waffle with your maple syrup.  Thems the breaks.

[BobM]

My speakers probably cost as much as the shipping crates for that stuff,  but when I once heard them in another room I had a similar reaction.  At that point I knew I was done experimenting with equipment and that progress was only going to be attainable by acoustical changes.  Part of the sales pitch is of course Diana Krall's records which are the peanut butter on the audiophile mousetrap.  It's kind of the equivalent of the little THX video on DVDs.  Who wouldn't be impressed?  Of course when the hi-fi honeymoon is over you may come to the realization that not EVERY record has that same saliva-crackling, floaty hot chick sound and that eventually you'll need some waffle with your maple syrup.  Thems the breaks.

I'm getting hungry for some peanut butter flavored waffles, served by a hot saliva crackling floating chick    leads to leads to leads to 

Enjoy,
Bob

[jimdgoulding]

Very few people do this- I didn't when I first started and besides that my listening room changed as most are likely to over time- but I think the wise thing to do is to give the room you would be intending to set up in a full measure in the thinking process particularly with regard to speakers.  For example, if the seating position will be relatively close, a three or four way design with front firing surface mounted drivers may not have the distance to coalesce.  Or, if the bass driver is large, it might overload a small room.  Stuff like that.  Where a person will be sitting and how much distance there will be to the room's surfaces is also important to the end game.  This can be guessed at using a person's good sense (if they have the experience) or the good sense of others.  Just looking at those Usher's and I'm thinking they would benefit from a mid size and larger room and that the other way around would be a mistake.  If you get the speaker to room relationship right, the need for wall treatment is minimized or reduced.  That's my experience and there has been a lot of it.  We are a pretty impulsive lot, I think.  To avoid spending more than I have or that a person needs to, think total synergy!  And do a little research.

[AliG]

Jim, can you build a surround for that Be-10???  aa

Very few people do this- I didn't when I first started and besides that my listening room changed as most are likely to over time- but I think the wise thing to do is to give the room you would be intending to set up in a full measure in the thinking process particularly with regard to speakers.  For example, if the seating position will be relatively close, a three or four way design with front firing surface mounted drivers may not have the distance to coalesce.  Or, if the bass driver is large, it might overload a small room.  Stuff like that.  Where a person will be sitting and how much distance there will be to the room's surfaces is also important to the end game.  This can be guessed at using a person's good sense (if they have the experience) or the good sense of others.  Just looking at those Usher's and I'm thinking they would benefit from a mid size and larger room and that the other way around would be a mistake.  If you get the speaker to room relationship right, the need for wall treatment is minimized or reduced.  That's my experience and there has been a lot of it.  We are a pretty impulsive lot, I think.  To avoid spending more than I have or that a person needs to, think total synergy!  And do a little research.

[jimdgoulding]

Yes, and for what your friend spent he shouldn't be without them.  I was a little hesitant to be so enthused at first until I learned they crossover to the tweeter at 3500kHz.  Still, as the baffle is shaped the way it is, you shouldn't expect an improvement of the magnitude of, say, a speaker with a flat baffle 6 or 7" wide.  An improvement, nevertheless.  Happy to help.  Send me a PM if you would care to pursue.

[dorokusai]

I think that audio has an ebb and flow, dependent on how OCD you are. I have been thru rollercoasters in this hobby, only to return to basics and simple electronics. I went from a 5K CDP to my old standby Sony CDP and am not angry or kicking my dog.....but I'll bite something high end again down the road.

Long story short, it's normal and as long as you don't lose money in the effort....you could have worse habits.

In regards to the Usher speaker, I've been loving the V-602 that have been here for awhile. My buddy has offered me a pair of bookshelf Be, forget the model number, and I should get off my arse. I don't know how they sell the S-520 for as low as they do. It's a great bookend and fun to listen to.

Mark
Polk Audio CS