Blue Note in the early days Recording Venue

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carusoracer

Blue Note in the early days Recording Venue
« on: 7 Jan 2008, 03:20 pm »
Blue Note in the early days must have been one of the Hottest places to record. I keep discovering these old Gems from Rudy Van Gelder's masterful recording techniques.
Does anyone know what his NJ recording venue looked like or the ancillary equipment used to tape all that magic? His ear for microphone placement,mix and final processing with the Blue Note engineers from the 50's-60's is just outstanding. I would luv to see a picture of that place. 
I was listening to "Moanin" Art Blakey and had to listen twice, it sounded that good. And this was just the Remaster redbook edition from the Van Gelder collection. No XRCD,SACD,DSD, just a very well mixed and clear recording 8)

Any other good Bop, Hard Bop suggestions? Man was that one hot period of music :icon_lol:

lonewolfny42

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Re: Blue Note in the early days Recording Venue
« Reply #1 on: 9 Jan 2008, 09:00 am »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudy_Van_Gelder

http://www.allaboutjazz.com/php/article.php?id=1116

http://mixonline.com/mag/audio_rudy_van_gelder/

Music....

http://www.amazon.com/Song-My-Father-Horace-Silver/dp/B00000IL27/ref=pd_sim_m_title_3

http://www.amazon.com/Somethin-Else-Cannonball-Adderley/dp/B00000I41J/ref=pd_sim_m_title_4

http://www.amazon.com/Go-Dexter-Gordon/dp/B00000I8UJ/ref=pd_sim_m_title_4

http://www.amazon.com/Sidewinder-Lee-Morgan/dp/B00000IL26/ref=pd_sim_m_title_2

http://www.amazon.com/Mingus-Ah-Um-Charles/dp/B00000I14Z/ref=pd_sim_m_title_18

http://www.amazon.com/Saxophone-Colossus-Sonny-Rollins/dp/B000EGDAI4/ref=pd_sim_m_title_8

http://www.amazon.com/Out-Lunch-Eric-Dolphy/dp/B00000I8UK/ref=pd_sim_m_title_6

http://www.amazon.com/Point-Departure-Andrew-Hill/dp/B00000IWVY/ref=pd_sim_m_title_5

http://www.amazon.com/Red-Clay-Freddie-Hubbard/dp/B000068D1J/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1199868144&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/Straight-Life-Freddie-Hubbard/dp/B000002AGR/ref=pd_bxgy_m_text_b

http://www.amazon.com/Night-Tunisia-Blakey-Jazz-Messengers/dp/B00079ZA0Y/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1199868479&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/Night-Birdland-Vol-1/dp/B00005MIZ8/ref=pd_bxgy_m_text_b

http://www.amazon.com/Bass-Top-Paul-Chambers/dp/B000TZUSJE/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1199869104&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/Birth-Cool-Miles-Davis/dp/B00005614M/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1199869251&sr=1-3

http://www.amazon.com/Giant-Steps-John-Coltrane/dp/B000002I4S/ref=pd_sim_m_title_12

http://www.amazon.com/Sunday-Village-Vanguard-Bill-Evans/dp/B000000Y87/ref=pd_sim_m_title_41

http://www.amazon.com/Time-Out-Dave-Brubeck-Quartet/dp/B000002AGN/ref=pd_sim_m_title_32

http://www.amazon.com/Night-Train-Oscar-Peterson-Trio/dp/B0000047D4/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1199869491&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/Jazz-Samba-Stan-Getz/dp/B0000047CW/ref=pd_sim_m_title_22

http://www.amazon.com/Infinity-McCoy-Tyner-Trio/dp/B000003N7Z/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1199869758&sr=1-6

lonewolfny42

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martyo

Re: Blue Note in the early days Recording Venue
« Reply #3 on: 9 Jan 2008, 09:30 am »
College students have their "cliff notes", but we have our "chris notes".   :lol:

Mucho thanks Chris.   :thumb:

lonewolfny42

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Re: Blue Note in the early days Recording Venue
« Reply #4 on: 9 Jan 2008, 09:33 am »
College students have their "cliff notes", but we have our "chris notes".   :lol:

Mucho thanks Chris.   :thumb:
Thanks Marty....

There's a lot more....but this is a good start for Mark.

And yes....I do own all those I listed.... :dance:

carusoracer

Re: Blue Note in the early days Recording Venue
« Reply #5 on: 9 Jan 2008, 03:02 pm »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudy_Van_Gelder

http://www.allaboutjazz.com/php/article.php?id=1116

http://mixonline.com/mag/audio_rudy_van_gelder/

Music....

http://www.amazon.com/Song-My-Father-Horace-Silver/dp/B00000IL27/ref=pd_sim_m_title_3   Need to checkout

http://www.amazon.com/Somethin-Else-Cannonball-Adderley/dp/B00000I41J/ref=pd_sim_m_title_4  Got it!

http://www.amazon.com/Go-Dexter-Gordon/dp/B00000I8UJ/ref=pd_sim_m_title_4                    Need to checkout

http://www.amazon.com/Sidewinder-Lee-Morgan/dp/B00000IL26/ref=pd_sim_m_title_2             Need to checkout

http://www.amazon.com/Mingus-Ah-Um-Charles/dp/B00000I14Z/ref=pd_sim_m_title_18            Go it!

http://www.amazon.com/Saxophone-Colossus-Sonny-Rollins/dp/B000EGDAI4/ref=pd_sim_m_title_8   Got it!

http://www.amazon.com/Out-Lunch-Eric-Dolphy/dp/B00000I8UK/ref=pd_sim_m_title_6                Need to checkout

http://www.amazon.com/Point-Departure-Andrew-Hill/dp/B00000IWVY/ref=pd_sim_m_title_5     Need to checkout

http://www.amazon.com/Red-Clay-Freddie-Hubbard/dp/B000068D1J/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?        Need to checkout   vie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1199868144&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/Straight-Life-Freddie-Hubbard/dp/B000002AGR/ref=pd_bxgy_m_text_b    Need to checkout

http://www.amazon.com/Night-Tunisia-Blakey-Jazz-Messengers/dp/B00079ZA0Y/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?   itie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1199868479&sr=1-1                                                                          Got it!

http://www.amazon.com/Night-Birdland-Vol-1/dp/B00005MIZ8/ref=pd_bxgy_m_text_b             Need to checkout

http://www.amazon.com/Bass-Top-Paul-Chambers/dp/B000TZUSJE/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?           outie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1199869104&sr=1-1                                                                 Need to checkout

http://www.amazon.com/Birth-Cool-Miles-Davis/dp/B00005614M/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1199869251&sr=1-3                                                                Need to checkout

http://www.amazon.com/Giant-Steps-John-Coltrane/dp/B000002I4S/ref=pd_sim_m_title_12   Need to checkout

http://www.amazon.com/Sunday-Village-Vanguard-Bill-Evans/dp/B000000Y87/ref=pd_sim_m_title_41  Got it!

http://www.amazon.com/Time-Out-Dave-Brubeck-Quartet/dp/B000002AGN/ref=pd_sim_m_title_32  Got it!

http://www.amazon.com/Night-Train-Oscar-Peterson-Trio/dp/B0000047D4/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?     ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1199869491&sr=1-1                                                                            Got it!

http://www.amazon.com/Jazz-Samba-Stan-Getz/dp/B0000047CW/ref=pd_sim_m_title_22        Got it!

http://www.amazon.com/Infinity-McCoy-Tyner-Trio/dp/B000003N7Z/ref=sr_1_6? ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1199869758&sr=1-6                                                                   Need to checkout



Thanks Chris, You are awesome :notworthy:

I have about a 1/3 of those titles and really need to check out more aa

I can see that many others enjoyed the work that the Musicians and Recording studios put out. What I would do to walk around that studio in its Heyday. I could play this Genre for quite awhile in the big rig!

I hope this helps others who are in search of something old yet timeless 8)

richidoo

Re: Blue Note in the early days Recording Venue
« Reply #6 on: 9 Jan 2008, 05:52 pm »
My brother recorded at Rudy's in late 80s. He said it was a nice place to play. Musicians had individual mixers for their headphones, visibility was great, great vibe.  It was designed for a jazz combo, not multi purpose/rock. It was a live recording of course, but acoustics not as open as in the old days, and recordings are much clearer now. Rudy had a secret piano that he hid until he could size up the pianist come to record. Larry Goldings was on that date, about 19yo, nobody knew him, and Rudy was quite suspect of a bunch of kids coming in to destroy his equipment and waste his time playing shit fake jazz for money, at peak of young lion era. So after the first break when Rudy had an earful of Larry's playing, there was a beautiful 8ft Steinway magically appeared and the baby grand beater disappeared. Rudy is very eccentric, perfectionist, he's gonna do it HIS way, which is what the label is paying for after all. But musicians may have a preference for a different sound, forget it.

I have recorded (a McDonald's commercial) in Capital Studio A in LA and the weirdest thing about being in spaces like that is the ghosts. The music that inspired you to get good enough to be there was actually recorded there. Stan Kenton, Clifford Brown, Sinatra, etc. It messes with your head. Recently, Sony closed the big Columbia studio in NY where the Miles sessions and so many other big Columbia records were made.

Lots of things changed at Blue Note after Moanin. Prior to that, it was low budget, the music was the main attraction, and stood on its own. Plenty of recordings were mediocre, but I still cherish the music. After Moanin, Blakey and Morgan and Timmons to some degree were now major jazz stars. Alfred Lion realized there was money in this and things were improved to try to make more Moanin's. When Sidewinder hit, that was serious money. Blakey held onto Morgan's royaltees so he wouldn't shoot them all and kill himself. They put a boogaloo track on almost every record they released for a couple years after that. So many stories. I wish there was a bebop folklore forum. haha

LWolfy, I never knew you were such a hard bop lush, me too! I make a yearly pilgrimmage to the Vanguard, maybe meet up there next time? Maybe on a Rave weekend. I usually come in Spring, my fav NYC weather.
Rich

carusoracer

Re: Blue Note in the early days Recording Venue
« Reply #7 on: 9 Jan 2008, 06:49 pm »
Richadoo,

Cool post and some great information...

My favorite Bop stuff:
Jimmy Smith- Back at the Chicken Shack
Curtis Counce- You get more bounce with Curtis Counce
Miles Davis- 'Round About Midnight  & "Relaxin' "
Cannonball Adderley- Something Else
Lou Donaldson- The Natural Soul

A forum would be really nice. I'm always interested in hearing about the new or old great Bop sounds 8)
« Last Edit: 9 Jan 2008, 08:16 pm by carusoracer »

richidoo

Re: Blue Note in the early days Recording Venue
« Reply #8 on: 9 Jan 2008, 08:46 pm »
I have that Somethin Else, what a great record. We listened to it in high school on my friend's father's vinyl many times. Many copies of memorex tape burned on that record, our whole gang, even the non jazzers all listened to it. Then I finally found the CD, it was so good to hear those tunes again after so long. I don't have any of the others you mention, sounds like fun stuff.

jimdgoulding

Re: Blue Note in the early days Recording Venue
« Reply #9 on: 10 Jan 2008, 12:45 am »
Caruso-  I've read in two places that Rudy Van Gelder's pre 1959's recordings were recorded in his living room.  If you wanna hear one that most likely was for sure judging by the sound, try Paul Chamber's Bass On Top altho I have no reason to suspect that Moanin was recorded with any different equipment or at another location.  Rudy otta write a book.  Think I'll see if he has.  That's some good info from Richie, too!  Help me out here fellas . . I own a Blue Note remaster from this 1999 series and recently recommended to a pal that he avoid Tokyo Blues (Horace Silver) if, in fact, it has been rereleased as one of these.  The reason I did this is cause Andrew Hill's Point of Departure sounds terrible on this series (and the Silver original sounds fine with air all around the horns).  So, I wanna a new copy of Moanin but cause of my experience I'm thinkin the new 45rpm release on vinyl.  But I would rather have it on CD if it's as good as you say, Caruso.  Anybody got an opinion on either format?   

richidoo

Re: Blue Note in the early days Recording Venue
« Reply #10 on: 10 Jan 2008, 01:42 am »
I have Point of Departure on vinyl and CD. It is a truly amazing record, and it's a damn shame what they did to it. Surely, they could A/B against the master tape and realize something went very wrong while EQing (removing) the bass?? I have my father's LP of Moanin from early 60s, and my recent Moanin CD sounds just like it, without the skips. :) It is nothing special, just cheap Blue Note reissue. I'll send you a short sample on mp3 if you wanna hear it. I have most all of Horace Silver's stuff on CDs I bought in 03. It all sounds fine. I don't have Tokyo Blues though, so I don't know if maybe my taste is just bad... haha
Rich

lonewolfny42

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Re: Blue Note in the early days Recording Venue
« Reply #11 on: 10 Jan 2008, 03:43 am »
Rich...

Quote
LWolfy, I never knew you were such a hard bop lush, me too!

Great Rich.... :thumb:
I'm in with the "In Crowd".... 8) :lol:
Matter of fact...my first Jazz LP bought back in the 60's was Ramsey Lewis "The In Crowd".....it was a big hit then...


I love that recording....still have it on vinyl and Cd.

I like all forms of Jazz and a lot of other music....I'm not just a "rocker".... :wink:


Mark....
Quote
My favorite Bop stuff:
Jimmy Smith- Back at the Chicken Shack
Curtis Counce- You get more bounce with Curtis Counce
Miles Davis- 'Round About Midnight  & "Relaxin' "
Cannonball Adderley- Something Else
Lou Donaldson- The Natural Soul

Good selections....so from that....try these...

http://www.amazon.com/Bringin-Home-Brother-Jack-McDuff/dp/B00000I04G/ref=m_art_li_5

http://www.amazon.com/Cannonball-Adderley-Poll-Winners/dp/B00000JCHC/ref=m_art_li_13

http://www.amazon.com/Let-em-Roll-John-Patton/dp/B000005HEL/ref=pd_sim_m_title_16

http://www.amazon.com/Whims-Chambers-Chameleons-UK/dp/B000005H3E/ref=pd_bbs_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1199936817&sr=1-2

http://www.amazon.com/Down-Home-Style-Jack-McDuff/dp/B000005H7W/ref=m_art_li_3

http://www.amazon.com/Root-Down-Jimmy-Smith/dp/B00004UAQS/ref=pd_sim_m_title_15

http://www.amazon.com/Empyrean-Isles-Herbie-Hancock/dp/B00000I8UG/ref=m_art_li_0

Make sure you pick up the Jack McDuff recordings....I REALLY think you will enjoy them the most.... aa

ZLS

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Re: Blue Note in the early days Recording Venue
« Reply #12 on: 10 Jan 2008, 04:22 am »
    Check out Mosaic Records.com for some terrific Hard Bob Box Sets. 

jimdgoulding

Re: Blue Note in the early days Recording Venue
« Reply #13 on: 10 Jan 2008, 07:29 am »
Hey Rich . . thanks, man!

carusoracer

Re: Blue Note in the early days Recording Venue
« Reply #14 on: 10 Jan 2008, 02:21 pm »
Hey Jim,

I think Richadoo and Lonewolf covered your questions. Great resources.

Richadoo, I like the reference to the original recording from the 60's. My Dad was really into MJQ, Horace Silver and Paul Desmond.

Lonewolfe, Excellent choices. I do not have any of the second set of listings so I will have to check them out. Jack McDuff was one swingin' cat :lol:

Thanks for the postings Guys' this is really what the Audiophile stuff is all about, The Music :thumb: