[Carlman]

Right now, I need room treatment.  I'm also pretty sure I need better power (dedicated outlets).  I came to this conclusion because I had these before and my system sounded great.... I have a new house and therefore new room....

I repositioned my speakers a few times and settled on a 45* angled room.  (See the thread on 'slant on speaker placement'.)  Wrestling with placement gave me back a lot of the good sound I was used to but, there's still something missing and I pinpointed today.  It's dry... and maybe a tad thin in the midrange/midbass area.

Deep bass is incredible.  Lots of punch and deep, clean sound.  The highs are a bit clashing but, I can tell that's all room treatment problems.  The imaging is good, but, the midrange is odd sounding.  It used to get midrange right.  Now it's clean and dirty, loud and silent... tough to describe.

I'm at the point now where I need to invite someone over for a second opinion.  Also, I need to work on the power and the treatments.  However, there would be nothing worse than spending a weekend or 2 of hard work to have the same problem.  (hence me asking here now)

Has anyone had dry, thin midbass and midrange and then found it was corrected with power and/or room treatments?  

I bought a couple of OneAC's but, I'm not sure they're fixing much other than a little line noise.  The hum from them is too loud for my tastes and will probably be up on ebay soon.

Thanks for any wisdom in these areas.

-Carl

[warnerwh]

After looking at your profile it looks like room treatments could have a profound effect. Hardwood floors can cause alot of problems with all of that hard surface area to reflect off of.  Room treatments are a necessity in my opinion and also have some of the best bang for the buck in a system.  Acoustics seem to be way overlooked on the forums I frequent. Once you try some room acoustics though be prepared.  I ended up with my entire wall behind my speakers with acoustic foam,  doesn't look the best but it helped the sound immensely.  Here's a place with good prices on acoustic foam:  http://www.foamorder.com/products.cgi?cart=b0W0t0n29193142221n6A2c1Z&item=acoustic
If you need it in colors there's another place but you'll have to ask around.   One last thing: it never ends:)

[witchdoctor]

I concur. You can get a free consult from Bill at 8th Nerve here on AC.

[darkmonohue]

I don't mean to rain on this parade, but isn't acoustic foam spectacularly flammable?  There was a horrible tragedy in a Rhode Island nightclub when pyrotechnics  ignited acoustic foam.  I'd look into this before covering one's walls with the stuff.

[witchdoctor]

8th Nerve doesn't use foam.

[Tonto Yoder]

I don't mean to rain on this parade, but isn't acoustic foam spectacularly flammable?  There was a horrible tragedy in a Rhode Island nightclub when pyrotechnics  ignited acoustic foam.  I'd look into this before covering one's walls with the stuff.

Some foam is fire-resistant; that particular nightclub was trying to save money by using cheaper foam that was, unfortunately, quite flammable.
One notable audio foam maker, Sonex, has two versions, one fire-retardant urethane, the other completely fireproof melamine:
http://www.sonex-online.com/Acoustical%20Foams.htm

[lonewolfny42]

I don't mean to rain on this parade, but isn't acoustic foam spectacularly flammable?  There was a horrible tragedy in a Rhode Island nightclub when pyrotechnics  ignited acoustic foam.  I'd look into this before covering one's walls with the stuff.

 Careful with those KISS cds - your whole room might go up !  

[warnerwh]

Well you had me going with the fire thing so I took a small piece I had and tried to start it on fire. Nothing but melting and I tried hard.  Once you hear the difference room treatment makes you'll wonder what you were waiting for. I know I did.  People keep changing electronics and cables when what they probably really need is room treatment.  Not to mention it doesn't cost that much. Acoustics are huge.  Without treatment results are certainly compromised and possibly to a large degree.  If it's not feasable to put acoustic foam up there are panels that can be moved when not in use.  Also you can get some designer type treatments.   The stereo's I've heard in rooms with hardwood floors consistently had horrible acoustics.  Then again these guys wives like horrible acoustics just fine.

[darkmonohue]

I'm glad to hear that the companies who make room treatments are addressing the fire safety issue--I still think it pays to pay attention and ask questions (or even conduct an experiment, as warnerwh did).  

With that out of the way, what should be one's goal in treating the room.  I mean, obviously, to make it sound better, but is that best achieved by making it as acoustically dead as possible, or is there some other ideal one aims at?

[warnerwh]

Actually treating a room can vary on how it's done, depending on the room.. A common way is the LEDE,ie. live end, dead end. In this case you treat the back wall behind the stereo and about 1/3 of the way out into the room from your stereo.  The rest of the room is to be live, possibly adding diffusers.  In my own experience I learned that just some treatment helps considerably.  Now that my entire back wall is done and the ceiling about 2 feet out I'm content and the improvement is substantial, just don't have the guts to put any more of that stuff in my living room.  If anybody has a good way to cover that acoustic foam up I'm all ears.  Remember the room is a component that interacts with your system and is therefore very important in regards to getting anywhere near the full potential of your system. There's no doubt in my mind that alot of problems that are blamed on electronics or cables would easily be rectified with room treatment.  Do a search on acoustic treatment as there's plenty to learn.  Don't forget for the money it's one of the cheapest upgrades you can do.  I don't want to be the only one with acoustic foam in their living room.

[satfrat]

Right now, I need room treatment.  I'm also pretty sure I need better power (dedicated outlets).  I came to this conclusion because I had these before and my system sounded great.... I have a new house and therefore new room....

I repositioned my speakers a few times and settled on a 45* angled room.  (See the thread on 'slant on speaker placement'.)  Wrestling with placement gave me back a lot of the good sound I was used to but, there's still something missing and I pinpointed today.  It's dry... and  ...

       I might get blasted for this but what the hea, this was my first thought when reading your thread title. BPT w/Bybee`s!!! This is the one area that I got my first taste of the lushness/richness of Bybee`s with the 3 dimensional depthness that projected the actual musicians into the room. I also think that the type of transformer in a balanced power conitioner is everything as it`ll leave a sonic signature of its own on the music. I know nothing of OneAC other than their not made for audio applications so what have you got? BPT on other hand has had excellent reviews on the sonic qualities of their conditioners and so has Plitron on their LoNo transformers. Anywho, this is my suggestion, for whatever it`s worth. But this has worked for me!  Regards, Robin

[KevinW]

What kind of wall treatment do you have in between your speakers?  When corner loading, it is crucial to have a very dead corner behind the speakers.  It sounds like you may not have this, and thus you are experiencing a horn-loading effect of reflected waves.

[stevirey]

As a x-carpet installer I hate to even mention carpet!I would not destroy a hardwood floor with wall to wall carpet.But the reflections from the hardwood floor makes me feel something like finger nails across a blackboard.Just get a nice area rug.From Afganistan?A Persian rug?
You could even experiment with a free piece of used carpet.

[John Bauder]

Actually treating a room can vary on how it's done, depending on the room.. A common way is the LEDE,ie. live end, dead end. In this case you treat the back wall behind the stereo and about 1/3 of the way out into the room from your stereo.  The rest of the room is to be live, possibly adding diffusers.  In my own experience I learned that just some treatment helps considerably.  Now that my entire back wall is done and the ceiling about 2 feet out I'm content and the improvement is substantial, just don't  ...

What about draperies for the back wall?  Covering the entire wall - you could have some material behind the drapes or just see what they would do by themseleves.

[audioengr]

Room treatments are fine and will improve image width and depth, but improve lushness?  I don't think so.

Improvements in lushness and liveness come with changes in both components and cables.  The first thing to focus on is to eliminate sibilance, from both cables and components.  The cheap band-aid way to do this is to use Bybee Purifiers and filtered power cords, but you will likely lose some of the HF "air" around the instruments and some detail as well.

If you are serious about this, you should invest in good sibilance-free cables and get your components modded.  This way you can rid yourself of sibilance and still get all of the music delivered.  Dynamics and focus will improve this way as well.

[warnerwh]

John: the draperies idea is perfect. Thanks from me and my girlfriend will thank you.

[markC]

If you have tubes in your system, rolling them makes a HUGE difference.Just keep trying.. you'll find the right ones...

[satfrat]

  The cheap band-aid way to do this is to use Bybee Purifiers and filtered power cords, but you will likely lose some of the HF "air" around the instruments and some detail as well ...

         Mmmm, hah nope, can`t go along with these statements in the least,, respectfully of course considering your credintials and all I`ve got are my ears. But frankly I hear a substantial increase of microdynamics and detail in the highs/lows, and all the air inbetween. Nope, I`ll forego the mods and stick with my BPT & Bybee`s.  Regards, Robin

[Sa-dono]

This...

  The cheap band-aid way to do this is to use Bybee Purifiers and filtered power cords, but you will likely lose some of the HF "air" around the instruments and some detail as well ...

         Mmmm, hah nope, can`t go along with these statements in the least,, respectfully of course considering your credintials and all I`ve got are my ears. But frankly I hear a substantial increase of microdynamics and detail in the highs/lows, and all the air inbetween. Nope, I`ll forego the mods and stick with my BPT & Bybee`s.  Regards, Robin

OR.....

Ok guys, I gotta fess up. ....I WAS WRONG, Bybee`s DO roll the highs off, no doubt about it. Hantra and others, ya`all was right, I was dead wrong.

You'll note audioengr did say likely. Also, how does your previous comment come into play?

[Sa-dono]

satfrat:

I have a genuine question. You seemed to have had a different impression at Bill's place..but now that thought seems to have disappeared. I am just curious what happened between the two time frames. Psychoacoustics? In need of a double blind test? I believe most other Bybee lovers feel that much of this can be system dependent. Is this the case here? If you can not provide a real answer to said question, then we can take this elsewhere.