[2gumby2]

I was considering using the Eichmann Cablepod binding posts for my next speaker building project and was looking for some feedback if anyone has used these. I have not seen any really good photos, but from what I have seen it appears that they are solder only to the speaker wires. Does anyone know if this is true?

[Daryl]

With the Eichmann's you are getting very expensive lightweight plastic.

The conductor substrate is copper rather than brass which is nice however they have neither the contact area, crossectional area nor clamping force of other options.

The idea that less mass is better which is being used to rationalize the products cheap construction is not true for speaker binding posts.

Here are some quality binding posts which by far outclass the Eichmann's but go for 1/10 the price....


http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1029


http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1030


http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=091-1245


http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=091-1246


http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=091-1247


http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=091-340


http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=091-620


http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=091-622


http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=091-624

I have a bunch of these bad boys (below).

They are 1" in diameter, weigh 1/2 pound and look tough as nails with six 10-32 socket head bolts holding them in.

They might tip a small speaker over backwards (just kidding).


http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=260-314

[Photon46]

I too had considered those when I replaced my binding posts. I do like their "Bullet" plugs for interconnects. Personally, I'm not too impressed by the suggestions Daryl gives only because binding posts in that price range are going to be brass, not solid copper. Brass has a lower conductivity than copper and after spending  the effort to replace binding posts, I'm not going to take a chance on poorer performance to save twenty bucks. I ended up going with Cardas pure tellurium copper unplated binding posts. The Edison Music Posts are also well regarded pure copper posts, if a little less durable. The main reason I rejected the Eichmann posts was because they're more easily stripped and I've got really heavy speaker cables to hang on to.

[TomS]

My speakers (Merlin VSM-MX's) have the Cardas Patented style copper binding posts (a single tightening knob) and I really love them.  One of my amps has the Eichman BP's and I can't say I like them much at all mechanically.  Electrically and sonically it's hard to say as I don't really have a way to compare them to anything else.  Edison Price, while nice copper are indeed not very durable in my experience with several amps and speakers using them (buy spares).

Tom

[KCI-JohnP]

I would have to strongly disagree with Daryls recommendations(cheap Chinese stuff) as well, a ton of brass in those posts! I'd also disagree with his "advice" about Eichmann, their binding posts are pure tellurium copper but do have some plastic(not in the signal path) so heavy cables need not apply. But, Eichmann does make quality products that sound fantastic and are well known in the industry. As Photon said; Cardas posts are great as well as the Music Posts. I LOVE the Cardas Patented posts!! aa

Sincerely,
John
 

[Photon46]

I suppose I should have added to my prior post that, YES, the Cardas posts did make an audible improvement. Even my wife noticed it. They're well constructed and beautifully machined. My only caveat would be to make sure you have a beefy soldering gun. They're quite efficient heat sinks during soldering and it takes a lot of heat if you are soldering several wires to the posts.

[Daryl]

Of course the difference between binding posts is not audible.

Uncontrolled tests allow you to fool yourself as has been well known since before HiFi existed.

I would prefer the copper substrate rather than the brass substrate personally and it wouldn't effect the cost much (I'll give the Eichmann's that).

Brass is a harder substrate and I would guess increases the durability of the product as well as resulting in lower cost.

However with the very short conducting distance involved and the large amount of material used in quality binding posts the quality/conductivity of the connection is likely more important than the conductivity of the substrate and the Eichmans just don't offer the kind of surface area or clamping pressure that a quality binding post does.

[KCI-JohnP]

Of course the difference between binding posts is not audible.

Well if that's the case why don't you just go on down to Home Depot and buy four galvanized 1/4" bolt's and nuts then? Much cheaper than those P.E. binding posts you like, besides it wouldn't be audible right?

John

[Photon46]

Daryl, you crack me up. I love it when someone makes up their mind that something is or is not definitively audible based on their personal experience, theoretical predispositios, and systems. If you want to be completely accurarate about things, I suppose I'd also have to factor in the five steel spade connectors I cut out of the wiring harness to solder the speaker wires directly to the binding posts. But I suppose that aslo would be inaudible by your theory of connector inaudibilty. It would also be well advised to acknowledge that what is inaudible in one system may or may not be revealed in another sytem to due any number of things including the ultimate capabilities of a given system.

[DaveC113]

I would prefer the copper substrate rather than the brass substrate personally and it wouldn't effect the cost much...

So would I, but the cost for copper posts seems to be about 3x what brass costs for some reason...

I just ordered Vampire brass posts (~$25 for 4 posts), because the identical posts in copper were about $85.

I'd think there could be audible differences because the alloying elements in brass might have an effect. Also, the idea behind Eichmann products is to eliminate the huge chunk of metal in connectors. It seems to work sonically, but there are equally good connectors available for a fraction of the price. I couldn't hear any difference between the "Bullit" RCA plugs and $1 Switchcraft RCAs.

One plus for the Eichmann speaker posts is that they are the cheapest all-copper posts I've found (even if they are mostly plastic), but I wouldn't use them because of durability concerns.

Dave   

[Daryl]

Of course the difference between binding posts is not audible.

Well if that's the case why don't you just go on down to Home Depot and buy four galvanized 3/8" bolt's and nuts then? Much cheaper than those P.E. binding posts you like, besides it wouldn't be audible right?

John

You have a good sense of humor John, I'll give you that.

Brass/Nickel/Gold is one thing and Steel/Zinc is another.

All of the posts I listed above have a quality look and solid feel as well as providing a low resistance connection and reasonable cost.

The mass of binding posts has no meaningfull effect upon the signal and it should not be implied that it does.

I use brass binding posts for my measurement system.


Normally for low impedance measurements you would employ a four wire setup so that you don't measure the connection impedance along with the intended impedance.

Should you measure a 1 ohm resistor with a four digit/two wire meter you will see that you cannot get meter to quit wandering.

The connection by holding probes or clips to the leads is too unreliable and has too much impedance (you must also subtract the impedance of the test leads).

The brass binding posts on my shunt box allow accurate two wire measurements because they achieve hundereds of pounds of clamping force and the results are extremely reliable and low impedance connections.

I also have a probe that connects to my measurement systems input which can be connected to the load for a four wire system but the effectiveness of the binding posts render it unneccessary.

Not only does this shuntbox measure speakers, inductors and resistors but it is capable of going 1000 times lower in impedance and doing full spectrum sweeps of capacitors and short lengths of wire.

Below I have measured only 11 feet of a huge garden hose sized speaker wire (7 AWG equivilant pictured above) and plotted the results along with a modelled resistor/inductor series pair and the system can even go lower (note the scale is milliohms not ohms as shown on the chart).


That's how effective brass binding posts are if they are quality and have generous surface area and clamping force.

[KCI-JohnP]

 

Best regards,
John

[Bill Baker]

I have started to respond to this thread a few times and decided not to. Now I have decided not to comment on the differences between or my opinion about connector techniques (debates never see closure) but do have a few observations to mention.

 For those who do believe in the "low mass" connector technique, you would be throwing your money away on a product such as the Eichmann or WBT Next-Gen if planning on using garden hose cabling. You are defeating the purpose at this point. If you are a low mass believer and use these types of connectors, you should also maintain this technique throughout the system including your cabling as well.

 This is the same as people who use coupling devises such as Audio Points only to load the same product up with a bunch of damping material  Two ideas working against each other. Pick one or the other, not both.

[2gumby2]

Great discussion! Of course, as an audiophile I'm looking for maximum signal transfer so that's why I thought the terullium copper of the Eichmanns might provide some advantage, but maybe not. I've used the PE 091-1247 binding posts in other projects and they seemed to do fine, but I was wondering if I might be missing something if I didn't use the high quality copper that the Eichmanns offer. I was also considering the Eichmann Bayonet connectors for my speaker wire because of the terullium copper. My current Audioquest banana connectors are made of beryllium copper which is less conductive than terullium copper. Maybe this is insignificant, but I don't know. Any opinions on the Eichmann Bayonet connectors compared to Audioquest or others? Or opinions on the difference between beryllium and terullium copper and other metals as related to connectors?

[*Scotty*]

Beryllium Copper Alloys can have less than 22% the conductivity of pure copper whereas Tellurium Copper Alloys will have greater than 85% of the conductivity of pure copper. See link:  http://www.premieringots.in/chromium-copper-alloys.html#tellurium
 Scotty

[EProvenzano]

Beryllium Copper Alloys can have less than 22% the conductivity of pure copper whereas Tellurium Copper Alloys will have greater than 85% the conductivity of pure copper. See link:http://www.premieringots.in/chromium-copper-alloys.html#tellurium
 Scotty

How does this compare to the brass typically found in generic binding posts?
The numbers are helping me to quantify this argument.  I appreciate you posting these stats.  Thanks Scotty 

[bluesky]

Hi Everyone

Just thought I would post a couple of thoughts in this er.......debate.

Firstly the Eichmann stuff is specifically designed to be low mass and the specific tellurium copper alloy is used for both maximum conductivity and to have a greater degree of durability than pure copper.  Engineering is always about compromises to maximise the specific goal you are seeking.  I certainly believe they sound better than the average binding post, I've spent many hours with Keith doing listening tests and the final design is only released when Keith believes he has produced a product that works well.  I also recognise that there are other high quality products on the market such as Cardas that work well too.

The second point I wanted to make was about the Eichmann company "making a killing on price".  There are several factors here including it being a western company compared to low labour cost countries such as China.  Next is the volume or economies of scale and lastly the profit made by the seller is quite different to a large volume sales company such as Parts Express.

I will quote from my own experience.  I visit my local audio shop, run by two guys.  I discuss connectors for awhile, go away and agonise over the decision, go back and talk some more.  I finally make a decision and buy a product, of which they have two packs on their shelves.  The shop cost $3,000 a week to run and you need to sell an awful lot of RCA plugs just to cover the rent.

This scenario is a lot different to a very large web based business and you get what you pay for in high end audio.  I buy some things from both sources, it just depends on which particular product I am after.

Bluesky     

[*Scotty*]

A brass appears to have a conductivity of 28% compared to 101% of ETP copper which commonly used in household wiring.
http://www.kp44.org/ftp/ElectricalConductivityOfMaterials.php
Scotty

[Occam]

A brass appears to have a conductivity of 28% compared to 101% of ETP copper which commonly used in household wiring.
http://www.kp44.org/ftp/ElectricalConductivityOfMaterials.php
Scotty

And the resistance of the max 1" length of #8 threaded brass rodstock on my industrial Superior BP-30 binding posts is going to be about how much more resistance than Tellurium Copper, pure copper or silver???? Are we talking about an incremental amount of resistance that matters in any material way?