[BrianM]

Sorry for quick off topic.
BrianM, the prazak is usually criticized for being too far off the normal staid interpretation. When Beethoven gets wild, they jump out the window. No fake pretentious classical snobbery in this cycle. Being a jazzer at heart I can't stand fake politeness and these guys rip it up.

Hmm.  That would boil down to one's interpretation of "fake" and "polite" I guess.  I've never considered Beethoven particularly "polite" but it's certainly possible to go too far in the other direction.

Grosse Fugue is awesome as is 15 and 16. The recording is relatively close mic'd so you will hear the grit in all its glory, but it's not harsh or annoyingly in your face. I think your Ellis' will eat it up. I'll send you a flac or two if you wanna looksee first.

Thanks, I'll probably just pick up a used copy and sample it (what I usually do).  And thanks for the tip.

[dullskull]

 Here are a couple of FAVS from my personal library:
 Symphony#4-Tchaikovsky-Abbado with the Vienna Symphony Orchestra.
 Symphony#8-Mahler-Abbado with the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra.
 Symphony#1-Walton-Mackerras wih the London Philharmonic Orchestra.
                              AND
 Symphony#2-Hanson-Schwarz with the Seattle Symphony Orchestra.

[jimdgoulding]

Yo, Brian.  Do I detect a little sarcasm in your whatever?  To which I am compelled to reply in my present state of well being . .  technically, I suppose it's an American folk opera.  Not much different from "La Boheme", I would suggest (other than it being American in origin).  Perhaps, inappropriate to the behest of the author of this inquiry, perhaps not, and, perhaps, not classical?  Remove your head from your ass.  By all means, tell me how difficult that is, if you must, unless I am mistaken.

[JLM]

It might help to keep the historical perspective.  In their days (17th/18th centuries) many of those guys were the rockers of their day.  Think long hair, hung out with celebs, new compositions, large venues/crowds, etc.  Picking up "Classical Music for Dummies" might help too.

[jimdgoulding]

Beautiful, J. 

[Thebiker]

I have to put in another vote for Rachmaninoff's "Symphonic Dances" from Reference Recordings.  Their recordings quality is always first rate and it is a enjoyable piece of music.  The dynamic range of the first cut on the CD has made it one of the recordings I take along to audition new gear.

Walt

[BrianM]

Yo, Brian.  Do I detect a little sarcasm in your whatever?  To which I am compelled to reply in my present state of well being . .  technically, I suppose it's an American folk opera.  Not much different from "La Boheme", I would suggest (other than it being American in origin).  Perhaps, inappropriate to the behest of the author of this inquiry, perhaps not, and, perhaps, not classical?  Remove your head from your ass.  By all means, tell me how difficult that is, if you must, unless I am mistaken.

Hm, I'll pass over your bizarre hostility and just say we could start a debate about where to draw the line between distinct musical traditions, but I'm not really interested, since anyone can define the terms of the debate however he chooses.  "Not much different from La Boheme"...hm.  That's a bit tendentious for me, though I'm sure I'm as aware as anybody of the parallels with European opera.  Since Porgy & Bess has feet in both the classical and jazz traditions (whereas La Boheme does not) I referred to it as a crossover work.  Ella Fitzgerald and Louis Armstrong are both jazz musicians.  The initiator of the thread is encouraged to pick up a copy, as it's a great work whatever its genre.

[BrianM]

It might help to keep the historical perspective.  In their days (17th/18th centuries) many of those guys were the rockers of their day.  Think long hair, hung out with celebs, new compositions, large venues/crowds, etc.  Picking up "Classical Music for Dummies" might help too.

If your impression is that "long hair" had the same connotation in the 18th century as it did in the 1960s, you need to rethink your historical perspective.  (What do "rockers" have to do with this thread anyway?)  Anyways, yes, innovative musicians are often boundary pushers.  I would submit the roots of jazz music (former West African slaves) are largely removed from the western European classical tradition.

[woodsyi]

With all due respect to Louis and Ella, this is the CD to get if you want to hear a "classical" rendition of Porgy and Bess.
http://www.amazon.com/Porgy-Bess-Performance-Leontyne-Price/dp/B00000I9MJ/ref=pd_bxgy_m_img_b

Rhapsody in Blue is good too in the same vein without vocals.

[jimdgoulding]

Biker-  Good one.  I own it on Athena Records with the Dallas symphony and positively treasure it.  Hope blood takes note.

Brian-  I am humbled by your generosity.  You my daddy.  And my drink has worn off (well, maybe not that much).  The parallel was more in the theatre (as relates to opera) and less in the music.  Generically classical.  Besides, dude already likes jazz.  Dude, stick with this version. 

(later)  Wow, double wow, a few minutes after I finished typing, Porgy and Bess (Miles Davis and Gil Evans) was playing on Jazz FM.  How's that for a coincidence.  I had forgotten how beautiful that is. 

[JLM]

Brian,

The thread title says convert from rock/jazz, thus the "rockers" reference.  Like today's pop/jazz/rock genres, the 17th/18th (even the 19th) century composers were pushing the limits.  Heck the first performance of Handel's water music, so named because it was played from a barge on the Thames, burst into flames from faulty pyrotechnics.  Performances in earlier times (except for opening nights) were much, much rowdier than today's dressed up and stuffed shirt events.  The typical crowd for Shakespeare would have fit into a sports bar today.

BTW most of the "long hair" you see from the time period were wigs, as hair lice along with lack of convenient means for heating water forced shorter hair for most folks.  Consider also that wigs were a luxury item, worn only by the wealthy.  Like today, most of the images we see of our culture come from the rich and famous.

[BrianM]

JLM, I don't know what I did to deserve the honor of a freshman survey lecture, but I thank you...(You mean people wore wigs?!  )

Not that I see how any of it relates to the present thread, and not that I'm disputing much of it.

Like today's pop/jazz/rock genres, the 17th/18th (even the 19th) century composers were pushing the limits.

Even the 19th??  Do tell!   

The only point I would take issue with, is that this kind of "pushing of limits" is analogous to modern rock musicians to any meaningful extent.  But that's because my terms of the debate require seeing rock music as a vastly more limited musical vocabulary compared to "classical" music.  Many if not most of the new "limits" in rock were largely superficial and incidental to the music being played; the music itself has not broken very much new ground these 40-odd years.

[Randy]

If you have HT capability (or not - I first played it through just a TV and enjoyed it immensely) this DVD will be a life altering experience.  The other Abbado/Lucerne Festival Orch. Mahler DVDs are equally thrilling.

http://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Symphony-Resurrection-Donostiarra-Orchestra/dp/B000A16SIM/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1199377675&sr=1-14

[acresm22]

Look for a Nimbus recording of anything Aaron Copland (probably have to order it...Nimbus is a UK label I think). Dynamics galore. I once heard Fanfare for the Common Man on a Nimbus sampler and it was a jaw dropper. The big percussion blast after the trumpet fanfare was incredible.

[carusoracer]

Here are a couple of FAVS from my personal library:
 Symphony#4-Tchaikovsky-Abbado with the Vienna Symphony Orchestra.
 Symphony#8-Mahler-Abbado with the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra.
 Symphony#1-Walton-Mackerras wih the London Philharmonic Orchestra.

Great Symphony #1 Walton! I have not heard that version.

I need to take a listen to the others.

[Wally King]

I think that Philip Glass is a composer whose works provide a nice transition from rock/pop music to classical.  His “minimalist” style, comprised of evolving patterns of rhythms and simple melodies, makes for an easy introduction to orchestral music for one who is not used to such music.

Two recommended recordings: the Violin Concerto and the Heroes Symphony, both on the Naxos label.  The Heroes Symphony is based on David Bowie’s album of the same name.

Other recommendations:

A recent release on the Naxos label of American composer Virgil Thompson’s compositions for two 1930s documentary films:  “The River” and “The Plow that Broke the Plains.”  The recording quality is spectacular, and both pieces are full of catchy, American folk and hymn tunes.

Another highly recommended recent Naxos release is one of several Aaron Copland works, including “Rodeo” and “The Red Pony.”  This one is also a spectacular recording of very accessible compositions.

A few more recommendations, of which there are many excellent recordings:

Stravinsky – the Rite of Spring
Debussy –Prelude to the Afternoon of a Faun
Barber – Adagio for Strings
Handel – Water Music
J. S. Bach – Orchestral Suites

As a newcomer to classical music, do check out the Naxos label.  Naxos CDs carry a list price of only $9.98, and you can frequently find them for a couple of dollars less from Amazon, H&B and ArkivMusic.  Many of the label’s early recordings were of substandard quality, both in performance and in engineering, but pretty much anything recorded in the last ten years is the equal of what the full-priced (overpriced?) labels produce.  Also, check out the Classics Today website.  CDs are given separate ratings for artistic merit and for recording quality, so you can be forewarned of any real clunkers.

Enjoy.

[chadh]

I'm not into much classical music, but there are some classical paths that I think would be more easily accessible from a rock/jazz perspective.  Classical guitar is probably pretty accessible, and I have a fondness for transcriptions of Bach for the guitar.  But this type of music probably doesn't have the crazy sonic attributes for which you're looking.

The other thing that always sticks in my mind is the devotion that Charlie Parker had for Stravinsky.  There are many indications of this, but one that I always remember comes from Charles Mingus.  He writes:

For instance, Bird called me on the phone one day and said: "How does this sound?" and he was playing- ad-libbing-to the Berceuse, or lullaby, section of Stravinsky's Firebird Suite! I imagine he had been doing it all through the record, but he just happened to call me at that time and that was the section he was playing his ad lib solo on, and it sounded beautiful.

It seems likely that a jazz fan might find a lot to like listening to Stravinsky.  You'd need to get specific recording recommendations from others though.

Chad

p.s. The quote from Mingus comes from an essay he wrote for the liner notes to "Let My Children Hear Music" in 1971.  It's weird, but obviously heartfelt, and titled "What is a Jazz Composer?"  You can find it here, if you're interested: http://www.mingusmingusmingus.com/Mingus/what_is_a_jazz_composer.html.

[rabpaul]

Here is something that's a little different.
Brubeck meets Bach - Dave Brubeck Quartet, Bach Collegium Munich
White Stones - Secret Garden

[Randy]

Chad's mention of guitars made me think of another famous classical warhorse, Rodrigo's "Concierto de aranjuez," a concerto for guitar and orchestra. Some of you classical newbies may not be aware of it yet. I have several recordings of it, but my favorite is by John Williams (the guitarist, not the movie music composer) on CBS. If you like this try his "Concierto Madrigal" for multiple guitars and orchestra. I have it done by the Romeros on Phillips. Very nice, also his "Concierto for una Fiesta." on Phillips. Search on amazon and you'll find them.

http://www.amazon.com/Rodrigo-Concierto-Aranjuez-Isaac-Albeniz/dp/B0000026YM/ref=sr_1_64?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1199465289&sr=1-64

This CD is evidently out of print, but this link will take you to several inexpensive used copies.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00000DRZ8/ref=dp_olp_2/002-7589055-3184818?ie=UTF8&qid=1199478052&sr=1-77

Oh, here's a link to the other Rodrigo concertos for guitar with the Romeros. You get another version of the "aranjuez" concerto, but I prefer the one with Williams. This one is very serviceable, however, and the two disc set is a steal at what you can get it for.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00000I94F/ref=s9_asin_image_2?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-1&pf_rd_r=1WVZJN2BHX50VCFHVKPS&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=278240701&pf_rd_i=507846

[billybuck]

Chad's mention of guitars made me think of another famous classical warhorse, Rodrigo's "Concierto de aranjuez," a concerto for guitar and orchestra.

"Aranjuez" is also used to great effect in Miles Davis' "Sketches of Spain."