[jsalk]

I had a similar experience a few years back.  I had just finished the first pair of HT3's and was playing a classical recording.  I heard what sounded like amplifier hiss in the background.  When I stopped playback, the sound disappeared - obviously not amplifier hiss. 

What was it? I finally figured out it was the air conditioning system in the concert hall.  Now I can plainly hear HVAC systems during low volume passages in many classical recordings.  It doesn't bother me since I now know it is not my equipment.  It kind of adds to the realism.  But I do recall being very annoyed by it the first time I heard it.

- Jim

[BikeWNC]

An orchestra is a noisy group.  It's not uncommon to hear chairs squeak, feet shuffle or pages turn during quiet passages.  These ambient noises tend to get lost in the crowd when an audience is present.  Then you have a whole different set of babies crying, coughs and movements to hear.  Sometimes you can even hear traffic outside the hall as it drives by.  It all adds to the realism IMO. 

Andy

[prpixel]

I go see the Philadelphia Orchestra about once a month at the Kimmel Center.  The acoustics are so good that you can hear candy wrappers from the next section.  Some people like to read during the program and you can hear the page turns.  Coughs can be heard from across the hall and talking and cell phones can get you kicked out. 

Sometimes they do live recordings.  Microphones hang down from the ceiling and there is High-Def cameras mounted around the hall.  I guy comes around with a long pole to turn them off or on.  You would think that they would have that automated.

The hall is beautiful and shaped like the inside of a violin.  In addition, the inside "walls" open and close silently throughout the performance to keep the hall from pressurizing.  It's kind of spooky the first time you see them moving.  The pipe organ is a real treat.  When they hit low notes you feel it in your chest.

For the last few years I've been a member.  I buy a group of a dozen or so concerts at one time, and then I trade them to get the shows I want.  If you buy this way, you can get orchestra or tier 1 tickets for between $30 and $50 a show.  Sometimes they throw in matinee shows for $5-$10 a ticket.  Most times I end up paying more for parking, gas and tolls than the show.  Finally, they have a program for students that are $5 per ticket; I purchase 5 pairs of tickets and donate them.

The last time I went to a pop concert I paid $200 a ticket, $30 for parking and $70 for bad food and drinks.  In addition, my seat was behind a support pillar and the sound was horrible.  For the cost of that one show, I could almost pay for an entire season at the orchestra.  I wanted to see Sting at the Borgata, but it was $400 a ticket.  By the time you throw in dinner, you're at around a grand.  S$#t, that's almost a pair of SongTowers!  No thanks Gordon, you can keep your tickets.

So, Thursday’s program is MOZART Symphony No. 41 ("Jupiter") and STRAUSS an Alpine Symphony.  After the main program, they invite you down to the orchestra and they having a postlude recital.  By the time this is over, the parking garage will have cleared out.  All this for $28.00 a ticket for tier one. How can you beat that?

[DMurphy]

Well,if you ever have an extra ticket.......I'm only 2.5 hours away.  I would really love to hear the Philadelphia in that hall.  I only get to hear them in the Kennedy Center Orchestra Hall, which is still a disaster zone unless you can afford tickets in the first 12 rows.  Not sure I want to hear the Alpine Symphony, though.  That's Strauss at his worst.  I actually had to play it once--I almost gave up the violin. 

[BrianM]

Not sure I want to hear the Alpine Symphony, though.  That's Strauss at his worst.

   Maybe not his best tone poem, but Strauss at his worst is still a cut above a lot of other composers.  I think it has a lot of great moments, and in purely sonic terms it's flat-out awesome.  Then again you're a string player not a brass player...no French hornist in his right mind would disparage it (obviously).  Knowing some string players myself I realize that playing Strauss can often be a thankless task. But the audience need not know how you suffer! 

Anyway, prpixel, if you don't know the Alpine Symphony I say you're in for a treat at the Kimmel.  I've been there, too, and agree it's a great acoustic.  (And you'll get to hear the organ in that work.)  The Philadelphia Orchestra, every time I heard them (it's been a few years), had that unique warm & dark sound that set them apart from some of the other big American orchestras.  (Certainly under Muti & Sawallisch, don't know how they sound these days.)  I always enjoyed it when they came out to Chicago, and thought of them as sounding more "European."  I was always struck by how they played with such great control and a marvelous blend.

Incidentally, about his Alpine Symphony Strauss said something to the effect that he had finally perfected his ability to orchestrate.  Both the storm scene and "On the summit" are about as realistic an evocation of nature as you'll find in Romantic orchestral music, imo.

[prpixel]

BrianM,

The Strauss is new to me that is why I picked that concert. 

While I've taken a few music appreciation courses in college, I'm not a big classical guy.  I go for a number of reasons such as it sounds good, it's a cheap date and it gets me out of the house.  When it comes to classical music, I'm kind of like a guy who drinks a certain wine because it tastes good, not because he has an educated palette.  What I really enjoy about the Philadelphia Orchestra is the prelude education sessions and the postlude recitals.  Members of the orchestra actually take to time to explain the music to you, play short excerpts, and tell you what to listen for.  In addition, you actually get to talk to the musicians.  When was the last time you got to talk to the musicians after see a pop concert?  Though, one time a did run into the members of James Taylors chorus at a $0.99 store on the boardwalk after seeing them at the Mark G. Eddes arena in the Trump Taj Mahal.

BTW, at some of the prelude shows at the Kimmel center, they actually feed you; what a novel idea.

[DMurphy]

"Then again you're a string player not a brass player...no French hornist in his right mind would disparage it (obviously)"

Actually--I lied.  On that particular occasion I was playing viola, directly in front of the French Horns.  Maybe that's why I don't like the Alpine Symphony.  But I do agree it's a great way to test out the acoustics of a hall and the fury of a top rank orchestra. Uh--what was this thread about?   

[avahifi]

Jim, take a look at my last post under "speaker recommendations" in my circle here.

It might make you smile, or again, it might not. 

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

[jam2001]

Because of their transparency the SongTowers are a godsend for great recordings, but they are less forgiving to poor ones. The VR-2s were kinder to some of my compressed, poorly transferred rock CDs. Perhaps more listenable on these recordings, but ultimately less satisfying.

Everytime I read about the SongTowers, I get more and more excited.  But comments like the one above are what concern me.  I have a lot of compressed, poorly transfered rock CD's.  I'm concerned that I might be the first one to try the SongTowers and end up returning such a fine speaker.  That's the only reason I've been considering the Rockets.  I'm thinking that they might be a little more forgiving.  But then the quality of the ST entices me.  I guess the only way I'm going to know for sure is by ordering them.

[jcpix]

As I have been upgrading my system, part of which involves SongTowers, I have found that about 20% of my recordings are poor to very poor.  I don't know what the answer is, but when you have higher end equipment it is less forgiving with bad recordings. 

[jam2001]

As I have been upgrading my system, part of which involves SongTowers, I have found that about 20% of my recordings are poor to very poor.  I don't know what the answer is, but when you have higher end equipment it is less forgiving with bad recordings. 

But are they "unlistenable"?  As in, "Ahhhh, it sounds so bad....Turn it off!" bad?  Or "Yep, you can tell that wasn't recorded very well, but that's ok, because I still like the music."

[St_PatGuy]

Just do what everyone else does--save the bad CDs for the car.

[jcpix]

They are not "unlistenable" but you would not want to play them all the time at high volume.  The biggest problem seems to be the highs are harsh and can glare.  With good equipment it is amazing the difference between a high quality recording and a poor one.

[Doublej]

If you are believer in absolute polarity switch the speaker leads and see if there is a difference.

[jsalk]

A few quick comments. 

From the very beginning, we have tried to concentrate on building speakers that are extremely accurate and very detailed.  As many owners will attest, by bringing out subtle detail in great recordings, the experience is something special.

For example, one HT3 owner reported that Keith Jarrett sounded better on his HT3's than he did in concert at Carnegie Hall just a few days earlier.

To me, that is the pure magic of great audio reproduction.

Of course, a speaker that can reproduce detail at that level will expose flaws in some poor recordings.  But this is a trade-off I am personally willing to accept in order to experience how good a truly great recording can sound.

That said, all of our speakers can be "dumbed down," so to speak, by padding the tweeter.  The response will no longer be flat and, thus, the speaker will no longer be "accurate."  We certainly would never recommend it, but it is possible and not that difficult to do.

The alternative is to purchase a speaker that will never be able to reproduce the magic in truly great recordings.  I have owned a few of them in my lifetime and that is what motivated me to begin building speakers in the first place.

Speaker design is all about trade-offs.  Our philosophy has always been to minimize any trade-off that will compromise the magic contained in truly great recordings.

- Jim

[jam2001]

For example, one HT3 owner reported that Keith Jarrett sounded better on his HT3's than he did in concert at Carnegie Hall just a few days earlier.

That's amazing!

I'm beginning to learn that there are compromises to any speaker I purchase and I'm still trying to decide what I'm willing to compromise.
Thanks for taking the time to reply.

[Legendlime]

When I got my SongTowers I couldn't play the introductory CD with my old Pioneer player so I swapped in the Integra DPC 7.4 from the surround system in the family room and the difference was, again, truely remarkable. Having quality AVA amplification in combination with the ST's has allowed me to enjoy music more.
I put in Sarah McLachlan's Surfacing CD and I believe that was the most beautiful music I have ever heard.

It's hard to think of having quality equipment as a negative. I think it's more of an opportunity to explore knowing you will be rewarded when find the right combinations.

And, the other day my wife walked in the room and looked at the SongTowers and said "you got new speakers". I asked her what she thought and she simply replied "very impressive" and walked out.

[jcpix]

To add to all of this, I agree with Jim's feelings about building speakers.  When a quality recording is played with the SongTowers, they are amazing and really give you the "sitting in the 4th row" feeling.   

[jam2001]

When I got my SongTowers I couldn't play the introductory CD with my old Pioneer player so I swapped in the Integra DPC 7.4 from the surround system in the family room and the difference was, again, truely remarkable. Having quality AVA amplification in combination with the ST's has allowed me to enjoy music more.
I put in Sarah McLachlan's Surfacing CD and I believe that was the most beautiful music I have ever heard.

It's hard to think of having quality equipment as a negative. I think it's more of an opportunity to explore knowing you will be rewarded when find the right combinations.

And, the other day my wife walked in the room and looked at the SongTowers and said "you got new speakers". I asked her what she thought and she simply replied "very impressive" and walked out.

What's really impressive about what you said was your wife's only comment when she saw the ST's was "You got new speakers." and then walked out of the room.   Not too many wives would do that.

[Bill@LakeGeorge]

Now when you guys get the upgrade bug, and it will happen, wait to you hear the HT3's and center.  There is nothing that looks and sounds like them.