This makes speakers sound alot better!!

HiFiSoundGuy · « **on:** 25 Dec 2007, 03:20 am »

Go to Wal-Mart and get some Kwik Seal kitchen&bath adhesive caulk and put it on the speaker driver's exterior and interior baskets....put it on thick. I did the same on the interior cut-out holes for the speaker drivers too. Westlake Audio puts adhesive caulk on all their speaker driver's baskets. This lowers the speaker distortion alot and makes the speakers sound much more transparent and three-dimensional. I'm AMAZED how good this tweak is!!

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #1 on:** 25 Dec 2007, 03:42 am »

Randy.....
Your a busy guy....***....****

Did you take photo's too ?

Have a Merry Christmas....

ecramer · « **Reply #2 on:** 25 Dec 2007, 03:45 am »

proably did not have time as he was to busy cutting holes in his cabinets

Quote from: lonewolfny42 on 25 Dec 2007, 03:42 am

Randy.....
Your a busy guy....***....****

Did you take photo's too ?

Have a Merry Christmas....

mcullinan · « **Reply #3 on:** 25 Dec 2007, 04:07 am »

what version of crack ru smoking? I want some!!
Mike

some young guy · « **Reply #4 on:** 25 Dec 2007, 04:35 am »

Quote from: mcullinan on 25 Dec 2007, 04:07 am

what version of crack ru smoking? I want some!!
Mike

christmas crack!

JLM · « **Reply #5 on:** 25 Dec 2007, 12:28 pm »

This is an old tweak (especially effective for stamped frame drivers) and shows the importance of how much sound comes from inside the cabinet through the cone (and how high the sound pressure levels are inside the cabinet).

Speaker cones are designed to primarily be lightweight with little flexure. The issue of sound transparancy is left to the speaker designers to deal with. Followers of open baffles, rear loaded horns, tuned pipes, transmission lines, and any speaker with a sloped baffle should appreciate this.

Gordy · « **Reply #6 on:** 25 Dec 2007, 12:52 pm »

Florists clay and rope caulk used to be the popular damping material a few years back, they make for a nice dense application!

HiFiSoundGuy · « **Reply #7 on:** 25 Dec 2007, 03:58 pm »

Someone on another forum posted about another product used on speaker drivers called (AVM) Anti-Vibration Magic from http://www.accentusaudio.com Has anyone tried this stuff?

Bemopti123 · « **Reply #8 on:** 25 Dec 2007, 04:21 pm »

Quote from: HiFiSoundGuy on 25 Dec 2007, 03:58 pm

Someone on another forum posted about another product used on speaker drivers called (AVM) Anti-Vibration Magic from http://www.accentusaudio.com Has anyone tried this stuff?

that goopey stuff is too much...Not that I have experimented with but the irreversible cosmetic is does on CDs and other products, it surely will change the sound of the products physically and also the owner's psychology about them. I say taking stuff to the extremes.

Geez.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #9 on:** 26 Dec 2007, 02:57 pm »

Chassis design is very important. Wide reflective surfaces are a problem especially with stamped steel frames. A ringing at the frames resonance can also be an audible problem and tweaks to control it can be very worth while. This is why I try to use a high strength polymer chassis design whenever possible. It minimizes all of these problems.

While a high strength polymer chassis can be stronger than most steel or even some cast Aluminum frames, and non-resonant, it can also be less expensive to manufacture. It is really surprising that few companies have figured this out.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #10 on:** 26 Dec 2007, 03:19 pm »

To Danny's point....few manufacturers have figured that a high-strength polymer (a plastic) chassis really is excellent. NHT has with their newest models and have been lauded with accolades (including The Absolute Sound) for very ordinary money.

I had 'damped' my 6.5" Peerless woofers with over a lb. of Plast-i-Clay ('rope' caulk, found in hardware stores, is hard on your skin - it tears of a layer and leaves them raw when you work with it a long time...I've used this, too) all over their stamped steel baskets (not the magnet section). As HiFiSoundGuy has found out, it is one neat tweek. The idea to use Plast-i-Clay, instead of Mortite or other rope caulk, goes to Frank van Alstine (who covers this in his free resource online, Audio Basics, way back in either 1982 or '83).

The difference was very noticeable after doing it.....much tighter bass, and a general air of more ease to the music as resonances were damped out.

Nonetheless, the Peerless used in that speaker was the cheapest series they made at the time....I think you could buy them for $24 a piece from Parts Express. So, tho it improved, there was still more to go.

Turns out Danny's M165 woofer was a near drop-in replacement for the Peerless in my application...so I bought a pair. It's an altogether higher spec unit, with a polymer chassis and only $45. True to form, despite the excellent upgrade of damping the Peerless basket, GR Research's woofers were better still.

It dug a little deeper in the bass and the midrange was a little more 'natural' in character (Danny uses a coated paper while the Peerless was polypropelene)

Moral for me:
1. You can improve what you have by damping stamped steel baskets...but there is no substitute for superior design and engineering
2. Don't be afraid of plastic/polymer woofer baskets - they work and are inexpensive to produce

Enjoy, John

Mike B. · « **Reply #11 on:** 27 Dec 2007, 06:32 pm »

I owned a pair of big Sequarra speakers back in the 1980's. They usef the peerless self enclosed cone mids. They coated the stock plastic mid enclosure with a couple pounds of putty. The frames of the other drivers got it as well.

Imperial · « **Reply #12 on:** 27 Dec 2007, 06:45 pm »

Quote from: some young guy on 25 Dec 2007, 04:35 am

Quote from: mcullinan on 25 Dec 2007, 04:07 am
what version of crack ru smoking? I want some!!
Mike

christmas crack!

Hehe!

Oooooooh, this has gotta be the best quick remark so far on AC this year!

Imperial

Zheeeem · « **Reply #13 on:** 27 Dec 2007, 08:23 pm »

Quote from: HiFiSoundGuy on 25 Dec 2007, 03:20 am

Go to Wal-Mart and get some Kwik Seal kitchen&bath adhesive caulk and put it on the speaker driver's exterior and interior baskets....put it on thick. I did the same on the interior cut-out holes for the speaker drivers too. Westlake Audio puts adhesive caulk on all their speaker driver's baskets. This lowers the speaker distortion alot and makes the speakers sound much more transparent and three-dimensional. I'm AMAZED how good this tweak is!!

Frank Van Alstine wrote up some good damping tweaks in an early Audio Basics - free on his website (as The Chair Guy noted!). The ideas are (at least) 3-fold: (1) damp surfaces that vibrate, (2) add resistive mass to surfaces, and (3) tune moving parts' frequencies (a la VMPS passive radiators). Silicone caulk is fine for some stuff, like soundcoating surfaces. But it doesn't really add much mass, and can be awkward to work with - since it eventually dries. Plast-i-clay (or other non-drying hobbyist clay) is actually great for this. It can be used to coat baskets, cabinet innards or frames (e,g, on magnepans), and pack the insides of turntables. And yeah, it makes a difference.

If you want to see an interesting example of this principle, take a look at Frank's longhorn grado cartridge (which is essentially a $5 mod that can be successfully applied to any cartridge with a front face).

Indeed, these sorts of tweaks do make a meaningful difference. But a number of mfrs, especially speaker mfrs, are already incorporating a number of these in their products.

jt1stcav · « **Reply #14 on:** 28 Dec 2007, 03:07 am »

For owners of older Heritage Series Klipsch Heresys, Cornwalls, La Scalas, Belle Klipsch, and Klipschorns with metal horns, rope caulk is widely used on woofer baskets, but most importantly all around the outter bell of the midrange squawker horn! Claims of reduced ringing of the horns is widespread due to this tweek.

Bob in St. Louis · « **Reply #15 on:** 28 Dec 2007, 04:56 pm »

Several of the fellas over at Hawthorne where using this same technique. All posted positive results. Some used modeling clay, some used rope caulk from an auto parts store. I bought three pounds of non-hardening 'stuff' from Home depot for about $1/pound. It's the black stuff used to seal around the HVAC and main electrical supplies coming into your house. I had ever intension of installing it, but "better ideas" came along and didn't do it as it may interfere with a baffle project I have in mind. But the nice thing about the product is that it never hardens (deteriorating and pooping little crumbs on your floor), it not "too" messy, and it's removeable in case you ever have to take it off.

Another interesting idea I have; There's a liquid product used to re-coat your hand tools, like pliers and side cutters. You simply dip the handle into the can, let it dry, and voila, you've got a nice soft tactile handle. I thought it be a worthwhile experiment to paint it on the stamped steel basket of a driver.

Bob

HiFiSoundGuy · « **Reply #16 on:** 3 Jan 2008, 05:28 am »

I found another cheap product that sounds really good on the speaker's steel baskets.....Duck Tape! I wraped duck tape tightly around each of the four steel strips on the speaker's basket.....THIS IS A MUST TRY TWEAK!!

richidoo · « **Reply #17 on:** 3 Jan 2008, 11:23 am »

This stuff should work nicely too:

There is a 2" wide x 3ft long size.

I have used it to seal coax antenna connections. But it is very thick, heavy vinyl/rubber, with strong 3M quality adhesive on the back. It easily stretched to conform. I would think you can wrap it around the basket arms several times, pressing to conform. Or lay on thicker layers front and back. It is 2" wide. Good stuff.

http://www.tapecase.com/p.1190.348/3m-scotch-2228-rubber-mastic-tape.aspx

HiFiSoundGuy · « **Reply #18 on:** 3 Jan 2008, 11:17 pm »

I now have electrical tape on the steel strips on the speaker's basket. I wraped the electrical tape tightly around each steel strip two times and then wraped the duck tape tightly around the electrical tape one time.......SOUNDS AMAZING!............

richidoo · « **Reply #19 on:** 3 Jan 2008, 11:40 pm »

No No NO!! HiFiSoundGuy!! You gotta use the $20 a roll exotic 3M stuff that you can only find from one seller on the internet!! haha

Good job using your head there! Vinyl is what Bob was referring to with the Dip-It stuff, but in tape form maybe less messy

Plus everybody already has it in the junk drawer! haha The 3M stuff is really thick and heavy for those overkill perfectionists among us

I've seen portions of squares of vinyl floor tile stuck inside chassis covers to stop them from zingin. Dynamat uses it as main ingredient in their products. Now you discovered another good use!
Rich