nOrh SE9 selling for $1,600 USD???

jackman · « **on:** 20 Sep 2003, 01:04 pm »

Okay,
I admit that I may have been quick to point out when nOrh has made mistakes. I have been critical of things like their Pyramid design and Multiamps, however, I have been equally quick to point out the GOOD products they have offered. Things like their little 3.0's, CD1 and the little SE9.

SE9 Link: http://www.norh.com/products/se9/index.html

I was one of the first people to take a chance on the SE9 and, paired with the right speakers, stand by my positive comments. The build quality was very good and the price was a real value, in a world of expensively overpriced/overhyped audio gear. It seems another company, Song Audio, finds the design very attractive. It appears they have taken the exact same TC Sounds design that nOrh used, made a couple cosmetic changes (wood on the sides, etc) and jacked the price up 400%.

Link: http://www.ultraaudio.com/equipment/songaudio_sa34_sb.htm

You may wish to read the entire article, to the part when they call the $1,600 price a "heretically low price." and go on to say "Sooner or later, Song is going to take my advice and raise that price"...ya, why not make it an even two grand (for a $400 amp). Please note, the Song version has a silver core power cable, slightly different cosmetics (transformers have symetrical covers and tubes are lined up symetrecally) and some fancy wooden sides. That certainly contributes to the $1,200 difference in price.

Anyway, it appears the SE9 is the real deal, and a solid inexpensive integrated (if teamed with the right speakers). Just my .10...

Cheers,

Jman

MaxCast · « **Reply #1 on:** 20 Sep 2003, 01:31 pm »

I sometimes dream of being a multi-millionare (who doesn't). Not so much so I could have my dream system, but so I could have a mansion with many rooms to build all kinds of systems. The SE-9 or 18 would be in one of them.

Gbatokai · « **Reply #2 on:** 21 Sep 2003, 10:53 am »

It's clearly not the exact same amp. With the tube layout, it could not use the same circuit board as SE-9. There are other differences too, as you point out.

There are lots of tube amps with 2x12ax7+2xel34+5ar4 out there, but they aren't necessarily the same amp. An Se-9 with upgraded capacitors, transformers and choke would probably sound quite a bit better, even though it's basically the same amp. The cost would be higher, as would be the quality.

I own the SE-9 myself, and even though I think it's great value, I'm pretty sure it's not my last tube amp

mca · « **Reply #3 on:** 21 Sep 2003, 05:18 pm »

Jackman, I have been on the lookout for a used SE-9 to use for a bedroom system. Just curious as to what speakers you have found to work best with this little guy?

jackman · « **Reply #4 on:** 21 Sep 2003, 07:48 pm »

The little Omega speakers sound VERY good with the SE9. I'm not a big fan of crossoverless Fostex drivers with solid state (however several people feel otherwise), however Louis Chochos' little Omegas (and the big ones I suppose) sound great with the SE9. You could put together a really nice system for very little money.

I'd just get a new SE9 (you can always sell it at a minimal loss) and a pair of the little crossoverless Omegas. You will be amazed at the amount of bass and overall volume you will get from such little speakers and 9 watts.

Good luck,

J

PS-Louis has a forum on this site. he's a great guy who will answer all of your questions and not try to sell you something you don't need. He may even have some amp suggestions. I'd also look to combine a Decware ZEn amp with Omega speakers. A little more expensive, but I bet it would sound pretty darn good.

djklmnop · « **Reply #5 on:** 22 Sep 2003, 05:01 am »

Hi,

I'm selling my used SE-9. If you're interested, send me a PM.

Andy

Gbatokai · « **Reply #6 on:** 23 Sep 2003, 05:33 pm »

The amp above is indeed a version of the SE-9 (TS Audio 34.1) that is especially manufactured for Song. I found this out accidentally while browsing about for SE-9 schematics:

http://www.pinoydvd.com/yabbse/index.php?board=7;action=display;threadid=10834;start=80

That said, it may have improved parts as discussed above.

Gbatokai · « **Reply #7 on:** 23 Sep 2003, 05:44 pm »

It seems Pinoy means Philippines, which I didn't know, and elsewhere on the site they mention the TS Audio KB300i integrated amp, which costs P57000 ~ $950. Interesting...

andrewbee · « **Reply #8 on:** 23 Sep 2003, 09:54 pm »

http://www.greenaudioth.com/ts_audio/amplifier_ts-audio.html

albee · « **Reply #9 on:** 25 Sep 2003, 12:07 am »

No one has noticed that the Song is a TRIODE config yielding only 3.6 (4) watts RMS? So, there are going to be some refined differences--the rest is marketing.

nathanm · « **Reply #10 on:** 25 Sep 2003, 05:08 am »

I compared the SE-9 to a Decware SE34i recently (about 4 times more expensive) and although the Decware has more inputs, more tonal options (via two bias\gain switches) and most likely better parts (just an assumption, I never opened it and if I did I wouldn't know what I was looking at anyway) the SE-9 held its own. There were distinct differences between the two amps, almost to the point where I'd venture to say I might be able to identify them blindly. The SE-9 had quite a bit more punch in the bass and treble but the Decware was more refined (whatever that means) and had a better soundstage. To my friend the SE-9 was the preferred choice, but I can't quite decide.

It would be hugely beneficial if the SE-9 had a preamp output, lemme tell ya. Would it be as easy as running some wires off the main pot and running them to some RCAs or are there more gubbins involved? That's one thing keeping this amp out of my main system.

That other amp Jackman pointed out certainly takes the cake in the looks dept. but I suppose a clever fella could glom some wood slabs onto the SE-9's sides if they really wanted. Hell, just removing the front plate is quite an upgrade! Heh! The TS Audio side is dead ugly, what a wretched font for electronics!

Gbatokai · « **Reply #11 on:** 25 Sep 2003, 08:59 pm »

Do you mean if it had a preamp at all? There's only the potmeter

I got good results using an active preamp for the SE-9. Bypassing the potmeter and input switches removed a tidy bit of grunge from the sound. In my case, employing and active preamp resulted in better dynamics, better bass and generally more controlled and muscular sound (I use the m-term very loosely here...).

nathanm · « **Reply #12 on:** 25 Sep 2003, 09:51 pm »

Okay okay, so call it a passive volume control output then!

I popped the bottom off the SE-9 last night, braving the hazardous voltages, and had a peek at the gubbins. There's certainly plenty of room for a Yucky Pot Volume Control Auxillary Output Jacks For A Subwoofer in there. Not even the SE18 has one. Seems kinda lame if you ask me. If there's a truly full range Don't-Need-No-Stinkin'-Subwoofer speaker out there that could be adequately juiced by the SE-9 it might be a different story, but in my weak-ass mains situation a sub always helps. And Norh SELLS subwoofers, so you'd think you'd wanna be able to run one from their amps. Hmmm.

So you rewired the thing to go directly to the power amp section, is that right?

Gbatokai · « **Reply #13 on:** 26 Sep 2003, 07:35 am »

Yep - bypassing input switch and potmeter, in other words. With a separate preamp, you could have all sorts for outputs and inputs.

wunderlast · « **Reply #14 on:** 26 Sep 2003, 12:52 pm »

Yeah, I've compared the SE9 and the Decware Integrated, too. Don't be too dismissive of that added 'refinement' in the Decware, that seems to be very hard and expensive to deliver.

On the speakers we were using the SE9 had more punch to the bass but it wasn't as clean. It sounded kind of bloated, kick drums sounded strong but kind of soggy. Not terrible, just not right. Refinement again. And the highs had a sibilance and distinct grainy sound I didn't much care for.

That having been said, the Decware is good for its price, but at its price there are better. But the SE9 is spectacular for its price. If I had $1500 to spend I wouldn't buy the Decware. If I only had $400 to spend, I could be very happy with the SE9. Besides, some of the sibilance and bass problems can probably be fixed with a little tube rolling, maybe some different caps.