GK1-R Source selector modification.

Grumpy_Git · « **on:** 15 Dec 2007, 04:13 pm »

Right, its cold outside and I've just ordered a shiny case to (finally) put my GK1 in, BUT........ (you knew that was coming)

The front panel is cut for a rotary source selector so any suggestions as to how to modify my GK1 to use this shiny knob, basically I need to know how the pushbuttons on the gk1 work, are they momentary contact switches? do they use all 4 legs?

I'm starting with nothing but the std. GK1 push button panel so can buy whichever rotary switch would be the best for me in terms of pole/gang config.

Any advice appreciated and a complete solution would rock my world, I dont have time to engineer the whole solution.

Cheers all

Nick.

AKSA · « **Reply #1 on:** 15 Dec 2007, 09:00 pm »

Nick,

Off the top of my head I cannot tell you yet, but I'm doing breakfast today with Ben Williams, the designer of the digital control system, and we will talk.

I'll get back to you.....

Cheers,

Hugh

Tinker · « **Reply #2 on:** 17 Dec 2007, 06:17 am »

Quote from: Grumpy_Git on 15 Dec 2007, 04:13 pm

The front panel is cut for a rotary source selector so any suggestions as to how to modify my GK1 to use this shiny knob, basically I need to know how the pushbuttons on the gk1 work, are they momentary contact switches? do they use all 4 legs?

I'm starting with nothing but the std. GK1 push button panel so can buy whichever rotary switch would be the best for me in terms of pole/gang config.

Nick, you are abolutely right: The GK1-R keypad uses momentary contact switches. All of these (source select and other functions) are connected to a common matrix. And yes, all four legs of the switches are soldered to the board, but this is for structural solidity, the switches are just SPCO. The GK1 hardware/software does all the debouncing and decoding of the switch matrix, so all you really need to do is physically substitute a different switch for the one you want to replace.

I don't know of a rotary of the type you want off the top of my head, but a similar question to this has been asked before, and some suggestions have been made
http://www.groupsrv.com/science/post-2246131.html

I also turned this up
http://www.allproducts.com/search/products/pE01060540.shtml

Basically the changeover should be straightforward if you can find a switch with the right specs. Let me know how you get on.

Cheers,
Ben.

AKSA · « **Reply #3 on:** 17 Dec 2007, 08:17 am »

Ben,

My thanks, this is a great response to a tricky question!

Nick,

You might need a bit of information on the switch before we can continue......

Clear, however?

Cheers,

Hugh

Grumpy_Git · « **Reply #4 on:** 17 Dec 2007, 02:27 pm »

Hmmmm? so theoretically could a 12way single pole rotary switch be used, stick with me here....

I'm thinking to use the GK1 as a 4 input setup, using 3-way per input and using the outer two contacts as the "Make" contacts with the centre as an "off" rest point, eg:

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | --->12 positions input

| A | --> Single output.

Tie 1-3 for input 1 select and use 2 as a centre off
Tie 4-6 for input 2 select and use 5 as the centre off.... etc etc....

Or would i need a 12way 4 gangswitch and to offest each input/output to a seperate point?

Maybe I could even "remove" the Click stops for the contacts I dont want to stop on (eg 1,3,4,6,7,9,10,12)

Cheers for your help, I know the above isnt very clear but posting small image (paint) files is beyond me at the moment.

Nick.

Grumpy_Git · « **Reply #5 on:** 17 Dec 2007, 07:11 pm »

ooh ooh ooh, I'm feeling scatty brained and will kepp asking stupid questions as they occur, as I now have my own flat and wireless internet (I'm typing as i eat dinner and listen to xmas songs

)

anyway, i seem to remember its possible to disable the mute function, as all the push buttons will be hidden I'd like to disable this feature, also can i disable the ht bypass?

Cheers

Nick.

AKSA · « **Reply #6 on:** 17 Dec 2007, 08:04 pm »

Hi Nick,

Yes, simply disconnect the two wires which connect to the HT Bypass button - no problem at all.

Hugh

Grumpy_Git · « **Reply #7 on:** 17 Dec 2007, 09:28 pm »

what the hell is sw1 on the keypad pcb and why is it unfilled on my board?

will get cutting once my case arrives and I'm puting it in the case.

Nick.

AKSA · « **Reply #8 on:** 17 Dec 2007, 11:31 pm »

Nick,

You have the GK1-M input switching board?

If so, that is the Lorlin five position four pole rotary switch which comes with the kit.

These switches are very cool, made entirely of plastic, and very elegant. They are made in UK!!

Cheers,

Hugh

jules · « **Reply #9 on:** 18 Dec 2007, 03:31 am »

Nick,

what's your aim here? If you have a GK-1 with remote, do you want to a) do away with the whole remote thing and replace it with a manual source select from RCAs through to C1 or b) do you want to use the rotary switch to activate the GK-R electrically switched relays [if that's how it works ... never looked closely at one]?

If you want to go part manual part remote ... I don't know

but ....

If you want to go entirely manual and you have the GK-1 manual board and Lorlin it's as Hugh says ... and easyish. If you don't have the manual board and want to do away with the entire remote system, you'll need a rotary switch such as the Elma 04 2261; 6 position,stereo selector, switches hot and ground, two poles per deck, two decks ... $58 from Michael Percy www.percyaudio.com or an 04 1261 6 position, two poles per deck, single deck which switches hot but uses a common ground $34.50. Both these switches come with a pin that you can use to block off the unwanted positions if you need less than the max. no.

jules

Grumpy_Git · « **Reply #10 on:** 18 Dec 2007, 10:23 am »

Hi all, The facts:

I have a GK1-R.
I dont have a Manual rotary switch and selector board.
I have a shiny case on order with a rotary input selector knob(as part of the design)
I want to keep the remote function.
I dont want to drill more holes for the existing push buttons
I want the possibility of using the rotary selector rather than setup as a dummy fascia (in the same way the volume control will be rarely used, i still want it connected...)
I want it to switch the relays.

hope that helps identify what I'm after.

Nick

PS: Jules, its 'B' im after in your options.

Tinker · « **Reply #11 on:** 20 Dec 2007, 03:14 am »

Quote from: Grumpy_Git on 18 Dec 2007, 10:23 am

I have a GK1-R.
I dont have a Manual rotary switch and selector board.
I have a shiny case on order with a rotary input selector knob(as part of the design)
I want to keep the remote function.
I dont want to drill more holes for the existing push buttons
I want the possibility of using the rotary selector rather than setup as a dummy fascia (in the same way the volume control will be rarely used, i still want it connected...)
I want it to switch the relays.

PS: Jules, its 'B' im after in your options.

Hi Nick,
this is what I understood. The issue is to find a rotary switch which is momentary contact. These are unusual, as a rotary switch is unually (but not always) built to move to a position and keep a circuit CLOSED there. If a switch on the GK1 is held closed, then the GK1 ignores all further input until released. This is a safety feature to prevent weird things happening when more than one button is pressed. If you can source a momentary contact rotary switch, then you can just wire it straight in. If not, you might be able to rig up a "virtual" one using an ordinary rotary, some transistors and a 555 timer. There are some other alternatives in the two links I posted earlier. Have a look and get back to the forum if there are any mysteries.

Cheers,
Ben.

andyr · « **Reply #12 on:** 20 Dec 2007, 08:33 am »

Quote from: Grumpy_Git on 18 Dec 2007, 10:23 am

Hi all, The facts:

I have a GK1-R.
I don't have a Manual rotary switch and selector board.
I have a shiny case on order with a rotary input selector knob (as part of the design)
I want to keep the remote function.
I want it to switch the relays.

Nick

Sorry, Grumpy,

WTF did you buy nice "shiny case" if it had a rotary input selector knob as part of the design ... when you knew you had a GK-1R which has push-button input selectors?

A GK-1R uses nitrogen-filled, gold-plated-contact relays. IMO, these "connect" better than any manual switch - hence I chose a GK-1R despite never using the remote feature. (I just use the push-buttons.)

You've now got yourself into a pretty pickle as to how to drive the relays with your manual selector switch. IMO, you now have three choices:

a) experiment with the switches which Ben has suggested ... you might need to buy more than one and solder it in and try it out ... and then take it out and buy the next switch? Maybe you can get it to work the push buttons?
OR
b) accept you bought the wrong case, make the best of it and drill the holes for the push buttons ... and put up with the extra (unused) hole for the rotary switch.
OR
c) don't use the "-R" part of your GK-1 and step back to a GK-1M ... so you can use the manual selector switch you bought with the "shiny new case".

Regards,

Andy

AKSA · « **Reply #13 on:** 20 Dec 2007, 10:07 am »

Andy,

Take it easy!! It's a free world, Nick is allowed to do whatever he pleases, and if he can get the answers here, it will solve his problem, and besides, makes very interesting copy.

Ben, many thanks for your clear answers. We are getting there!

Hugh

rabbitz · « **Reply #14 on:** 20 Dec 2007, 11:15 am »

By-pass the smarts on the selector board and wire the rotary switch directly to the relays so it supplies the power or ground to make them switch. That's what I use on one pre amp so I can have the benefit of a relay at the back handling the signal but a rotary switch on the front only to supply the electronic switching.

Sort of like this thing (not recommended BTW).
http://www.diyfidelity.com.au/product_info.php?cPath=0_43&products_id=46

Grumpy_Git · « **Reply #15 on:** 20 Dec 2007, 11:51 am »

Andy

I did it cos I liked the case and I think a rotary switch will look better and be more interesting than the buttons on the -R (sorry Hugh

)

It IS the right case (for me) and I know i can make the requisite changes as i havent forgotten everything i ever learnt at uni, I just wanted to see if there were any easy answers and pointers available.
(for example I wasnt aware the switches were single pole momentary contact, thanks Ben)

cheers for all for the help, I'll let you know how things pan out and will post pictures when all is complete.

Nick.

andyr · « **Reply #16 on:** 20 Dec 2007, 07:30 pm »

Quote from: Grumpy_Git on 20 Dec 2007, 11:51 am

Andy

I did it cos I liked the case and I think a rotary switch will look better and be more interesting than the buttons on the -R (sorry Hugh )

It IS the right case (for me) and I know i can make the requisite changes as i havent forgotten everything i ever learnt at uni, I just wanted to see if there were any easy answers and pointers available.
(for example I wasnt aware the switches were single pole momentary contact, thanks Ben)

Well I hope you can get it to work!

You learnt things at Uni?

I may have but I think I've forgotten everything I ever learnt at Uni!

Regards,

Andy

rabbitz · « **Reply #17 on:** 21 Dec 2007, 04:13 am »

Quote from: andyr on 20 Dec 2007, 07:30 pm

I may have but I think I've forgotten everything I ever learnt at Uni!

Regards,

Andy

Which is no bad thing.

Grumpy_Git · « **Reply #18 on:** 21 Dec 2007, 10:02 am »

I learnt how to mix vodka with beer for maximum pleasure!

I also learnt that if the fuses of the HT supplys are burnt out then its possible to use graphite rod as replacements

I didnt say i learnt anything big or clever!

Nick.

andyr · « **Reply #19 on:** 21 Dec 2007, 10:11 am »

Quote from: Grumpy_Git on 21 Dec 2007, 10:02 am

I also learnt that if the fuses of the HT supplys are burnt out then it's possible to use graphite rod as replacements

Nick.

But shirley copper rod is a better substitute ... as I believe graphite actually has quite high resistance? (Well, at least VdH's graphite ICs had a very high resistance.)

Regards,

Andy