[Bemopti123]

Double, have you tried adding a somewhat sweet sounding tube pre to the Spectron?  Something on the veins of a low end Shindo or even a Dehavilland preamp? 

[Double Ugly]

Double, have you tried adding a somewhat sweet sounding tube pre to the Spectron?  Something on the veins of a low end Shindo or even a Dehavilland preamp? 

Not yet.  It's under serious consideration (excellent suggestions ), but I know it's in my best interest to wait.

I'd much prefer to get the Revelations in the house before auditioning new equipment.  I'm having trouble conceptualizing the difference the full-Monty version will make; the improvement gains from the 'standard' Mundorf crossover surprised me.

Unfortunately, I don't have either yet.

[TheChairGuy]

Most myths are started by those who have an overly simplistic understanding of how things work and based on that make inferences which are repeated by those who don't know any better.

Whoever started this notion that tubes are "open circuit" and transistors "open and close" so that with digital sources tubes "fill in the gaps" and transistors do not knows little or nothing about tubes, transistors, or digital audio.

Actually, it's probably more a matter of me re-telling what was said succinctly  rather than that person having been completely unknowing.

John

[pbrstreetgang]

I dont know he sure did clear up some absolutely wrong information. To me the worst thing in a community forum is hype and outright wrong information that thousands of people read. I thank him

[Daygloworange]

I dont know he sure did clear up some absolutely wrong information. To me the worst thing in a community forum is hype and outright wrong information that thousands of people read. I thank him

Yeah, Steve's full of it alright. 

Information, that is.    He's cleared up a lot of things that I've taken as the gospel, after reading it time after time again, for years, in published material nonetheless.

If you peruse through his posts, he helps a lot of people that way. And some people don't like him because of that, and take shots at him.

He genuinely likes to share knowledge, as most knowledgeable people do, but some people don't always appreciate that. They perceive his sharing of knowledge as argumentative or oppositional, rather than helpful....

I'd consider it "a dark day" if he didn't share his knowledge.

Cheers

[bsuhy]

Thanks everyone for all of the great replies. So many choices, so little time......sigh...

Geesh... I think the best thing for me to do is to get some tube cages and call it a day. I think Mike Sanders will sell em to me for a reasonable price...



I am looking to make my system more kid friendy (as my 3 year old can start the whole thing up and get a CD playing on his own), and tube cages would appear to do the job. All other things being equal, as long as the kids can't get to the tubes, are tubes/chips/solid state all equally safe? Or are there other dangers I need to take into account?

Even if that is a solution,the thought of having a whole bunch of different gear come through my system is rather enticing.....

Buying new has the advantage of being able to audition in home and then return. I would stick with companies that offer this policy, depending on price. I can budget up to $2500 for this endeavor if I choose to go down that road, but I am not going to spend that much if I dont have to.

I think I will look into gear at various price points, all the way up to my limit (MusicHall A25.2, Creek5350, Odyssey stuff, RWA, Pass, etc ). I will also check out some of the kits offered by AudioSector, Ska Audio, etc.

Looks like I am in for a long journey. Short of ordering online and listening in my home, my choices to audition gear are pretty limited. Do others find themselves in the same boat? I dont have the time to attend shows, and what is available in Indianapolis to audition is very limited ( although Odyssey is here ). But then I am not hearing the equipment in my home with my other equipment, so what's the use?

I can see how folks end up on the equipment merri-go-round.

Thanks again for all of the discussion, its very interesting.

[bsuhy]

I dont know he sure did clear up some absolutely wrong information. To me the worst thing in a community forum is hype and outright wrong information that thousands of people read. I thank him

Yeah, Steve's full of it alright. 

Information, that is.    He's cleared up a lot of things that I've taken as the gospel, after reading it time after time again, for years, in published material nonetheless.

If you peruse through his posts, he helps a lot of people that way. And some people don't like him because of that, and take shots at him.

He genuinely likes to share knowledge, as most knowledgeable people do, but some people don't always appreciate that. They perceive his sharing of knowledge as argumentative or oppositional, rather than helpful....

I'd consider it "a dark day" if he didn't share his knowledge.

Cheers

Ditto. I cant say "thank you" enough to folks like Steve for the time they spend on these boards sharing their knowledge with us. I am sure that at times it can be frustrating, and letting them know their knowledge and input is appreciated is the least we can do.

[Steve Eddy]

Actually, it's probably more a matter of me re-telling what was said succinctly  rather than that person having been completely unknowing.

Fair 'nuff since what was said wasn't from the horse's mouth.

Just don't re-tell it no mo'.

se

[Steve Eddy]

I'd consider it "a dark day" if he didn't share his knowledge.

Thank you for the kind words. Though there are those with far more knowledge than I and if they stopped sharing, it truly would be "a dark day." If I did, it would maybe be something more like a "scattered high clouds day."

se

[mcrespo71]

I swithched from Conrad Johnson/VTL Monoblock tube electronics to a Naim Nait 5i three years ago.  I've been happy with the switch, but there are certainly things I gave up in making this move.  Nonetheless, I'd say it was a succesful move.

[Steve Eddy]

Does it sound like a 300B?  Nope, but then what does?   

Exactly!

And when you try and make something sound like something completely other than what it is, you just end up with the audio equivalent of margarine. And I think that's a mistake made by a lot of solid state designers. Although I think a 300B amp can sound very good, I don't want a solid state amplifier that was designed to sound kinda, sorta, somewhat but not quite like a 300B amp. I want a solid state amplifier that sounds good, period.

And it doesn't have to sound like a 300B amp to do so.

I mean, two women can look quite different, have different personalities, etc., yet I can find both to be equally attractive.

Both tubes and transistors have their strengths and weaknesses. So instead of trying to make vacuum tube margarine out of transistors, I think the goal should be to bring out the beauty of each to their fullest.

se

 

[Double Ugly]

Does it sound like a 300B?  Nope, but then what does?   

Exactly!

And when you try and make something sound like something completely other than what it is, you just end up with the audio equivalent of margarine. And I think that's a mistake made by a lot of solid state designers. Although I think a 300B amp can sound very good, I don't want a solid state amplifier that was designed to sound kinda, sorta, somewhat but not quite like a 300B amp. I want a solid state amplifier that sounds good, period.

And it doesn't have to sound like a 300B amp to do so.

I mean, two women can look quite different, have different personalities, etc., yet I can find both to be equally attractive.

Both tubes and transistors have their strengths and weaknesses. So instead of trying to make vacuum tube margarine out of transistors, I think the goal should be to bring out the beauty of each to their fullest.

se

Couldn't agree more... with all of it! 

[Wind Chaser]

And when you try and make something sound like something completely other than what it is, you just end up with the audio equivalent of margarine. And I think that's a mistake made by a lot of solid state designers.

To what extent can a designer actually predict what something will sound like before the execution?

[Steve Eddy]

To what extent can a designer actually predict what something will sound like before the execution?

Not to any great extent in my experience. Best one can do is have something of an inkling, then build it and evaluate the result. Sometimes you get farther down the road, sometimes you go back to where you started.

se

[TONEPUB]

A friend has OB with tubes.  As expected the sound is colored and lacks imaging.  Soundstage is the size of the wall behind them.  Tone is rich, warm, and full bodied.  Easier to live with than a highly analytical studio system, but I'd tire from too much euphoria.

It is enjoyable, but not accurate, and not my idea of an audiophile system.

Everyone has his own idea of what is an accurate audiophile system.  Coloration and lack of imaging can be fixed with better tube gear.  My point is that enclosed boxed speakers have a characteristic that makes them sound like enclosed boxed speakers.  This observable fact is especially evident in the midrange, the airiness of the sound and the surreal visceral impact.  An enclosed boxed, no matter how good just doesn't sound as natural as an open baffle. 

There are a lot of box speakers you haven't heard....
And Im a panel guy, so don't think I have an agenda.

On the other subject, the reason the F3 sounds very similar to a 300B amp is because it uses one output transistor
in class A mode, and is driven single ended, just like an SET tube amp, so the coherence and tonality that you
get from an SET amp comes through with the F3.  The little bit of diff is from a transistor not sounding like
a tube exactly, but a lot of the magic that we associate with any of the SET amps is there in spades with the F3.

It's definitely worth checking out!

If you want, Nelson pass even has the schematic up on his website so you can build one
yourself!  he's a cool guy that way...

[Wind Chaser]

There are a lot of box speakers you haven't heard....

There certainly are a lot of enclosed box speakers I haven't heard, nor do I need to hear in order to know that they do NOT sound like or share the characteristics an OB!  When the back wave is trapped inside the confines of an enclosed boxed instead of being able to radiate in free air, you can't reasonably expect the speaker to sound like something it isn't.

Expecting a wave trapped inside an enclosed box to sound like an OB is like expecting a convict imprisoned to live life as if he's on the outside.  That just ain't going to happen.

[rajacat]

There are a lot of box speakers you haven't heard....

There certainly are a lot of enclosed box speakers I haven't heard, nor do I need to hear in order to know that they do NOT sound like or share the characteristics an OB!  When the back wave is trapped inside the confines of an enclosed boxed instead of being able to radiate in free air, you can't reasonably expect the speaker to sound like something it isn't.

Expecting a wave trapped inside an enclosed box to sound like an OB is like expecting a convict imprisoned to live life as if he's on the outside.  That just ain't going to happen.

Just because an OB radiates in free air doesn't necessarily mean it will sound good. Surely the sound quality of the open baffle speaker will depend on how it is constructed and what materials are used to build the cone. These certainly impart their own color to the sound. Also don't many OBs' have trouble generating decent bass response and gizmo's such as equalizers and baffle step compensation are required to achieve adequate and flat response. Also some box speaker builders can use certain  building techniques to achieve flat response without resorting to such extraneous devices which certainly have their own drawbacks.

  We could be getting a little off topic here.

[Wind Chaser]

Just because an OB radiates in free air doesn't necessarily mean it will sound good...  Also don't many OBs' have trouble generating decent bass response and gizmo's such as equalizers and baffle step compensation are required to achieve adequate and flat response...

Rajacat,

How a speaker presents whatever sound it makes determines whether it sounds natural or not.  Good is a matter of taste.  A flat FR and deep bass are not pertinent or even relevant if mids are unnecessarily compromised by design.

[TONEPUB]

So what it sounds like is that we have someone here who's only answer to things is the OB design...

It's a big world out there and OB is a very small part of it.

[rajacat]

I guess it just comes down to how well a given design be it OB, box, planer, stats, etc is implemented. Each group has its true believers but I think that an open mind is the best approach and not to categorically disrespect any of the schools of thought.