[raztec]

Just getting into this hobby.

I've picked myself up a pair of AV123 Strata Minis and Panasonic XR57 reciever.
The other components are coming in time: DAC, TT, Plasma etc.
Planning ultimately on 7.0 system to use as a HT with 50/50 music.

I'm wondering if I need special power cables, surge protectors etc. to protect my system or get better quality sound.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Raz

[bpape]

For HT usage, plan on a 7.1 instead of 7.0 system.  There are a ton of reasons why that I won't go into right now. 

As for cables, just get something built well to start with for interconnects.  For speaker cabling, it's personal preference but IMO there are a lot of other places where your money is better spent at this point.  Get some decent 12ga to start with.  Get the rest of your system pinned down and 'learn it'.  Then you can start playing with upgrades.

Bryan

[denjo]

As for cables, just get something built well to start with for interconnects.  For speaker cabling ... there are a lot of other places where your money is better spent at this point ... Get the rest of your system pinned down and 'learn it'.  Then you can start playing with upgrades.
Bryan

Well said Bryan! I totally agree! Try Blue Jeans and Signal Cable. Relatively cheap and honest cables! I started with Belden 1800F for balanced between pre and power, went on a merry-go-round with exotic (read expensive cables) but ended back where I started!! 

[Dan Driscoll]

Ditto what Bryan said, plan for 7.1.

Definitely get some sort of surge protection and/or power conditioning. You should get something better than just a basic power strip with a circuit breaker, but how much better depends the investment you have in equipment, how bad the AC power is in your home, whether you experience lightning strikes, etc. Panamax is well regarded, but even the entry level  Monster Power units do a decent job.

Home Depot and Lowes sell 12 AWG OFC (Oxygen Free Copper) speaker wire that is perfectly fine for the equipment you have and only cost pennies a foot. I personally prefer Outlaw Audio interconnects, but Blue Jeans is also very good.

[vman71]

Raz,

If you can install at least 2 dedicated lines.  If you can't install dedicated lines, then invest in a decent power conditioner.  Not knowing what your budget is, addressing the power step-by-step will take your system a long way.  I would prioritize it like this:

1. Dedicated lines
2. Power conditioner/Power regenerator
3. Power cords

Then do the IC's and speaker cable.

[raztec]

Thanks guys for your responses.

I figured 7.0 because the Strata Minis already have built in subs. I'll add a center channel from AV123 to match the strata minis and 4 in-ceiling speakers from ACI. I know in-ceiling speakers aren't ideal, but a short 6'5" ceiling precludes anything else.

When I did the basement reno I pre-wired using 12g speaker wire behind the drywall.

As for the power cables, sorry for my naivete, but would a good quality power strip like the Monster work where I can plug in the various components using their own power cords, or do I need separate high quality power cords for each and every component? That would get pretty expensive, no? And if a simple power strip doesn't suffice, which component would most benefit from a quality power cable?

While I'm on a roll with stupid and naive questions, by interconnects do you mean the cables that go between components? 

Thanks again,
Raz

[bpape]

Raz.

There is so much more to having a sub other than your mains having a decent woofer section.  The idea with a sub is to:

- Take the load off your main speakers and amps during very dynamic, demanding HT passages
- Be able to place the sub where it's best for bass response without changing imaging or screen lock of the mains.  Rarely is the best place for imaging and viewing the best place for bass response
- Be able to tune bottom end response by playing with phase, xover, slope, eq, etc. on the sub without impacting the mains and getting the 2 to blend the best.

This isn't to say you can't just to 2.0 when listening to music if you choose.

Yes, interconnects are wiring used to connect sources to preamp, preamp to amp, etc.  Having a good cord on a 'strip' and then using cheaper cords betweenm the components and the strip kind of defeats the purpose.  It's still the weakest link type of thing.  Seriously, there are a TON of other things you need to pay attention to in your system that will make much more impact.

Bryan

Sorry, but you'll not get many takers on Monster and quality going together around here.  I personally would never run my amps through much of any power strip - they go straight into the wall.  For the other components, there are a lot better things available. 

As for the cords, don't sweat it too much IMO.  Start with stock and work from there.

[Dan Driscoll]

Bryan is correct about subs. What the Minis have are amplified bass drivers, not subwoofers. They are OK for listening to 2 channel music, but will lack the dynamic 'slam' that you want for home theater.

Boutique power cords are something I would recommend you hold off on. There is still a lot of debate as to whether they offer any improvement over stock cords and even if they do it is only noticeable on pretty high end equipment. What you have is entry level mid-fi and IMO boutique power cords would be a waste of money.

Power conditioning and surge protection are a different subject. Surge protection is about protecting your equipment from surges, lightning strikes, spikes, etc. Power conditioning is about filtering or even regenerating the AC power to make it more stable and to reduce or eliminate any noise (EMI/RFI) that may be piggy backing on the 60 hertz AC power. Most surge protectors do not condition the power, but almost all power conditioners are also surge protected.

Most people settle for a surge protected power strip of one sort or another. Typical of these would be the Monster Power bars that Bryan is so dismissive of. While I agree that they are not the ideal solution, I've used them in the past without any problems and they work fine for what they are designed to do, provide basic protection for your electronics.

The next step up is some sort of "power center". These typically provide some level of power conditioning as well as surge protection. Panamax, PS Audio and Richard Gray are some well regarded brands at this level. Prices can range from around $300 to more than $5K. I use an old Monster Power HTS-2500 MK II and have not had any problems with it. However, I have been upgrading my system and will probably replace it with a Panamax unit soon.

You can also have dedicated power lines installed for your audio/HT system. However, dedicated lines only isolate your system from the rest of your house electricly, by themselves they offer no protection against surges, EMI/RFI, etc. Dedicated power lines must be used in conjunction with a surge protection and conditioning system, such as a power center.

The ideal is to have a 'whole house' power conditioning system with dedicated lines for your audio/HT system(s). But that's very expensive and IMO isn't justified unless you have $20K or more invested in electronics.

Something I disagree strongly with Byran on is plugging amps directly into the wall. Unless you have a whole house system this defeats the purpose of having a a surge protector or power conditioner. It can also introduce something called a "ground loop", which can cause humming, noise and other distortion in your audio and video.

As always, IMO, YMMV, etc.

[bpape]

Absolutely.  YMMV.

I just have not yet found anything that didn't limit the dynamics of my amps when putting them between the amps and the wall.  If you have really bad, noisy, spikey power, it might be worth your while.  Other than that, I prefer a conditioner which has all the circuitry in parallel with the line as much as possible.  The BPT is the best I've experienced so far.

IMO, 90% of the people out there really don't have a NEED for power filtering and conditioning.  If it's just to shut off for a spike and the compression of dynamics isn't an issue, then a reasonably priced APC will work just fine.

As for the ground loop, again, if the outlets are wired properly, you have dedicated circuits, and you star ground them instead of daisy chaining them, you should be fine.  If you're not, then there is something amiss in one of the components.

Bryan

[Dan Driscoll]

Absolutely.  YMMV.

I just have not yet found anything that didn't limit the dynamics of my amps when putting them between the amps and the wall.

That's a legitimate argument and if I ran my system at reference levels I might be more inclined to agree. However, in that case I would either go with a whole house system or use no surge protection at all.

As for the ground loop, again, if the outlets are wired properly, you have dedicated circuits, and you star ground them instead of daisy chaining them, you should be fine.  If you're not, then there is something amiss in one of the components.

Therein lies the problem, many homes, especially older ones and apartments, do have daisy chained grounds, because it's much cheaper when building the home than star grounding. My condo was built in the mid-80s and has daisy chained grounds, so if I plug my system into more than one outlet duplex I will have a ground loop. Also, most people don't have dedicated circuits, even among AC and other audio forum members.

[bpape]

Agreed Dan.  I do run mine loud at times - so I use nothing on the amps as to not restrict them.

As for the dedicated runs and daisy chaining, the idea of dedicated outlets was suggested as the first thing to try prior to conditioning or power cords in an earlier response.  I was just trying to lay out how properly to do the dedicated outlets to avoid the problem.

If you're stuck with existing outlets and you can't get to them to redo them, then there can potentially be an issue. I've not run into it personally when there wasn't either:

- a problem with a component that when fixed, eliminated the ground noise
- a video system also plugged into that circuit or a video component's audio connection tied to the audio system.  (video tied to cable systems is an all too often culprit)

Something like this  http://www.cs1.net/cables/products/jensen_transformers/CI-2RR.htm  can do an excellent job of minimizing the symptom of the ground loop without restricting power flow.

Another option if you're just running from different outlets on the same circuit is to simply pull the outlet, replace the duplex with a quad new work box, and install 2 duplexes.  That will eliminate the ground potential difference and give you the 4 outlets.

Bryan

[dnnaudio]

Boutique power cords are something I would recommend you hold off on. There is still a lot of debate as to whether they offer any improvement over stock cords and even if they do it is only noticeable on pretty high end equipment. What you have is entry level mid-fi and IMO boutique power cords would be a waste of money.

2nd that. On my reference system I easily notice positive effects of certain boutique power cables, but not so much on a modest 2nd system. IMO power cords start to assume a larger role as you go into higher end config. Entry level to mid-fi you're probably better off just picking a quality PLC (like an entry level Hydra) and using strictly stock or DIY power cords.

My 1st post, hello forum!