[andyr]

What do you all recommend for good quality Binding Posts and Female RCA Connectors?

Also, how many Female RCAs do I need on the GK-1M?

BPs:  when I built my AKSAs 5 or 6 years ago, I went for Vampire BPs (from Michael Percy).  I recommend them highly as being a solid construction and good materials ... but now I am upgrading my 6 monoblocks to LFs, I have decided to spend the money on jewellery for my audio system rather than diamonds for my wife  ... so I have gone for Eichmann Cable Pods this time around.  The philosphy behind their design is superlative IMO.

RCAs: I use Vampire again ... gold-plated copper.  For a GK-1M, it will depend on whether you have phono or not?  I believe the selector-switch is 5-way (I'm not sure, as I have a GK-1R) ... then you have the outputs.  I suggest it's worth putting in 2 pairs (in parallel) of "normal" output RCAs, plus the Sub Out.

And if you have chosen the phono option, use another pair of phono inputs (in parallel) for an easy method of applying load resistors for the cartridge.

So, as you can see, I used 9 pairs. 

Regards,

Andy

[whubbard]

Hmm,
About the woofer load, Hugh states: "You will have no trouble with the LF100s driving the low impedance load, but I do admit I wish Siegfried would design a higher, more conventional impedance into his wonderful speaks......" So its all good.

On the connectors, I was thinking about the Eichman BPs, but I don't really like their look.
I was thinking about using Cardas connectors, how do you feel about that?

Thanks,
West

[stvnharr]

On the connectors, I was thinking about the Eichman BPs, but I don't really like their look.
I was thinking about using Cardas connectors, how do you feel about that?

Thanks,
West

West,
I have used most of the Cardas BP's, and the Eichmann's as well.  I never heard any differences.  Choose the one you like the looks of most.  I rather like the looks of the Eichmann, and the Cardas Gold Rhodiums the most.

Steve

[whubbard]

Well then, Cardas it is.

Thanks.

[whubbard]

One more thing, I will have a DCX2496 in my system. What do you think of this signal path. Someone had suggested using the SL sub board, but I feel like I want more control over the lower end.

Source
to
GK-1M
to
DCX2496 (Will crossover around 60hz and send 60hz+ to the SL Crossover, and the 60hz- to the EP-2500)

[andyr]

One more thing, I will have a DCX2496 in my system. What do you think of this signal path. Someone had suggested using the SL sub board, but I feel like I want more control over the lower end.

Source
to
GK-1M
to
DCX2496 (Will crossover around 60hz and send 60hz+ to the SL Crossover, and the 60hz- to the EP-2500)

The XO point from woofers to mid on the Orion is 120Hz.  I suggest you do not want to introduce a further XO a mere octave below that (the HP from the sub is too close to the LP to the midrange driver).  If you really think you need subs with Orions then I would've thought a 35 or 40Hz XO to the Orion woofers would be better.  Davey will be able to better advise you.

What you've also done in your suggested config is add another processing stage in front of all the signal going to the Orion ASP.  I suggest this is not a good way of going about it (unnecessary "pollution" of the high frequencies).  If you want a bass HP filter "in front of" the ASP, so you can roll off the Peerless woofers where the EP-2500 takes over then you should go the double-board version of the Orion XO which some AKSA owners have done - so they can feed the bass drivers with the GK-1 "Sub Out" and the mids & tweeters from the normal tube out.  This gives you more "bass slam" ... I have done this with the bass drivers on my active Maggies. 

This way, one XO board feeds the bass drivers by themselves (ideally, use the "Sub Out") - while the other feeds the whole ASP for the mid & tweeter.  This way, when you put the DCX2496 in front of the ASP, you are only degrading the bass section of the XO - the mids and tweeters are unaffected.

Regards,

Andy

[whubbard]

What would you think of a Bass filter after the ASP (Split the Woofer Out at 40 or whatever)?

Also what is the default sub out crossover inside the Gk-1? How hard is it to change?

Would you mind explaining which signal path with the Subs and Orions that will result in the best sound possible?

Also, if I go with the double Orion XO, can I change the crossover frequencys from his default? (althought I might want to keep it the same)

Thanks,
West Hubbard

[andyr]

What would you think of a Bass filter after the ASP (Split the Woofer Out at 40 or whatever)?

Thanks,
West Hubbard

Great idea!    Why didn't I think of that!! 

Also, what is the default sub out crossover inside the Gk-1? How hard is it to change?

There is no "default sub out crossover" inside the GK-1.

The "Sub Out" output simply goes out after the volume control but before the final, tube output stage.  So it is controlled by the volume control in the same way that the "normal" output is ... but it avoids the tube.  Hence it has punchier bass - exackerly what subs (or bass drivers!  want)!  But for full-range music through an AKSA, it does not sound engaging!    With a tube power amp, it may well.

Would you mind explaining which signal path with the Subs and Orions that will result in the best sound possible?

IMO - but you might want to ask marcus and PSP who are both AKSA owners and Orion owners - if you want to use subs with your Orions then you would use the RCA outputs on the GK-1 as follows:
* "normal out" feeds the ASP for the mids & tweeters.
* "sub out" feeds the ASP for the Peerless woofers.  The output of this ASP module feeds the DCX2496, so the high output from this goes to the Orion woofers and the low output to your sub.  However, this introduces an extra cable run to your system which you could avoid if you instead incorporated the bass highpass module of SL's bass XO inside your Orion ASP case (I'm assuming here SL's sub module consists at least of a bass HP filter?)

Also, if I go with the double Orion XO, can I change the crossover frequencys from his default? (althought I might want to keep it the same)

As I understand it, yes, you can change the XO frequency from his default but I suggest it is not a good idea to butcher SL's careful design?    As he says on his web-site ... if you change anything, you're on your own!    The 120Hz XO point was chosen for good reason.

Regards,

Andy

[whubbard]

Hmm...To me the most important is that the Orions sound the best, and the subs are secondary. Because of that I feel the best option is to use the Thor/Orion Crossover and have my subs come from his board to an EQ...I feel like that will best reproduce the sound. There will be nothing touching the signal going to the Orions...only possibly to the Subs.

-West Hubbard

[andyr]

Hmm...To me the most important is that the Orions sound the best, and the subs are secondary. Because of that I feel the best option is to use the Thor/Orion Crossover and have my subs come from his board to an EQ...I feel like that will best reproduce the sound. There will be nothing touching the signal going to the Orions...only possibly to the Subs.

-West Hubbard

Having heard Orions, West ... and hearing a "Yello" track on a CD that I know well (and hearing bass that I simply do not get on my big Maggies - and I've measured them down to 35Hz), I cannot believe that you'll need subs with Orions.

Regards,

Andy

[kyrill]

if a sub is SUB enough, they say it will tickle your fancy..
in a song i may have heard this

[whubbard]

hmm...kyrill....

The only reason I want to add my subs to this system is because SL himself says that once he added Subs the system improved a lot. Maybe that's just him trying to sell him Thor kit, I don't know...

The thing is, if the subs don't really make a difference, then I can easily just switch the cable from the thor/orion crossover directly to the orion crossover, and the subs will be out.

??Do any on the Orion owners here use subs??

[bhobba]

The only reason I want to add my subs to this system is because SL himself says that once he added Subs the system improved a lot. Maybe that's just him trying to sell him Thor kit, I don't know...

I don't have an Orion but have read quite a bit about it.  My recollection for using the sub is it was to prevent the woofers maxing out during explosions etc of movie tracks in home theatre.  Sigfried uses them all the time now, not just for home theatre, because he has found they do not deleteriously detract from the systems performance, and it does guard against possible damage at higher volume levels.
http://www.linkwitzlab.com/orion++.htm
'The second plus in ORION++ stands for the THOR subwoofers that I have been using on a permanent basis ever since I introduced the w-ASP and increased the crossover frequency to 50 Hz. I have not heard detrimental effects due to group delay and if anything the subwoofers reduce distortion from the ORION woofers. Now with ORION+ and my higher SPL desires I feel that the subwoofers justifiably have a place in my music playback system.'

My opinion, for what its worth, is that setting up an Orion is a major undertaking, probably best done in stages.  Adding the ++ feature of a subwoffer is probably best left to the end.

Thanks
Bill

[AKSA]

Hi West,

I noticed a comment here about subs and Orions.  I feel I should say something here because I've heard Tinker's Phoenix (related to the Orion, the predecessor in fact), and Aurelius' Orion (an all AKSA setup with music server and lots of care and attention to detail).

It's been said here, but I'll say it again.  If you have the Orion, you definitely DO NOT need subwoofers.  Why would this be so, I hear people ask.......

It is because of the speed of the open baffle concept.  The Orions are very, very fast.  The term 'fast bass' has been overused in the past, but it's a valid idea I feel.  In terms of speed, and assuming an 8" driver of good quality, in order of slowest to fastest  we start with a 6th Order bandpass sub, then a competent reflex design, next the sealed box, then Transmission Line, and finally, open baffle, fastest of all.  This speed is very apparent with the Orion, and must not be matched with a slowish subwoofer.

Of course the transient response of the amp is important too, but generally at bass frequencies differences are less obvious.  But the configuration of the speaker is critically important.

My own preference is for the transmission line, but they are VERY difficult to design.

I would be surprised if any Orion owner were not happy with the bass extension;  much comes back to the EQ supplied by the woofer output on the active crossover, too, but this is well designed on the Orion and presents no problems although the power supply can be improved upon.

Hope this helps,

Cheers,

Hugh

[whubbard]

Thanks for the input hugh!

I think I will build the Orions without the subs, and then see how it goes.

Thanks Again