Record Demagnetization!! It Works!

topround · « **on:** 4 Dec 2007, 11:04 am »

I was at Michael Fremers house the other day when I saw this large round plate on the floor. It was a Furutech record demagnetizer. I asked him if it works and he said ""we'll, you tell me".
It did, the sound stage got deeper and cleaner and the tone on instruments was more accurate, more musical. I don't know how it works but it does, I was impressed.
Anyone have any similiar experiences with this thing?

BobM · « **Reply #1 on:** 4 Dec 2007, 12:27 pm »

Now you're just dropping names. "I live near Mikey's house and he asked me to come over and play."

I hope you brought your son with you. So now tell us all what the man's system sounded like. aa

Of course demag works on records, especially this time of year when humidity is down and static cling is up. Most of us vinyl heads in the North East have Zerostats for just that reason. I can't say that I've noticed any "openiong up" of the music though. I use it to avoid that nasty spark to the stylus and the loud pop through the speakers as the record discharges. Perhaps a whole record at once demag'er works better than the red Z-gun. I bet it wasn't an inexpensive item either.

Bob

Steve Eddy · « **Reply #2 on:** 4 Dec 2007, 04:13 pm »

Given that there's literally nothing that DOESN'T "work," why would it be any sort of surprise that record demagnetization "works"?

se

Steve Eddy · « **Reply #3 on:** 4 Dec 2007, 04:14 pm »

Quote from: BobM on 4 Dec 2007, 12:27 pm

Of course demag works on records, especially this time of year when humidity is down and static cling is up.

Eh?

What would a demagnetizer have to do with static?

se

DaveC113 · « **Reply #4 on:** 4 Dec 2007, 05:05 pm »

I heard the Furutech CD Demagnitizer at RMAF with my own disc, it was followed by a negative ion treatment too, but the guy doing the demo said the bulk of the improvement is from the demag. This was at the Feastrex / Lotus Group rooms, and the demag device is $400. Anyhow, it did make a big difference. As in NOT subtle... the music was quicker, cleaner, and more dynamic.

I'm wondering whether a plate demagnitizer will work, they are available on ebay for ~ $20...

To get rid of static electricity, couldn't you just lay it on one of those grounded mats made for electronics assembly? I'm not a sure a demag is going to do anything for static, as SE mentioned...

Dave

BobM · « **Reply #5 on:** 4 Dec 2007, 05:34 pm »

Sorry, I guess I am confused. I figured a demagnifier would also get rid of any static buildup also. I guess that was a bad assumption on my part. But wouldn't polarizing or adding a magnetic charge to anything cause it to (most likely) attract statically charged particles?

Bob

Hank · « **Reply #6 on:** 4 Dec 2007, 05:43 pm »

Static electricity has nothing to do with magnetic fields - two different energy forms.

Steve Eddy · « **Reply #7 on:** 4 Dec 2007, 05:45 pm »

Quote from: DaveC113 on 4 Dec 2007, 05:05 pm

To get rid of static electricity, couldn't you just lay it on one of those grounded mats made for electronics assembly? I'm not a sure a demag is going to do anything for static, as SE mentioned...

Not really. Because vinyl's pretty much an insulator, the charge carriers that are producing the static charge aren't very mobile. Otherwise all you'd have to do is touch your LP to an earth ground. You need to balance the charge with charges of opposite polarity.

You mentioned the negative ion treatment in your post. That seems a bit odd since vinyl is on the negative side of the triboelectric series, which means it likes electrons and develops a negative static charge. So instead of negative ions balancing the charge on the LP, they would actually be repelled by it. And if the LP were neutrally charged, its affinity for electrons would tend to cause it to actually pick up a static charge in the presence of negative ions.

se

Steve Eddy · « **Reply #8 on:** 4 Dec 2007, 05:51 pm »

Quote from: BobM on 4 Dec 2007, 05:34 pm

Sorry, I guess I am confused. I figured a demagnifier would also get rid of any static buildup also. I guess that was a bad assumption on my part. But wouldn't polarizing or adding a magnetic charge to anything cause it to (most likely) attract statically charged particles?

No. Like Hank says, you're dealing with two different things here.

When something becomes statically charged, it either has an excess of electrons, which gives it a net negative charge, or a deficit of electrons, which gives it a net positive charge. To neutralize the charge, you either have to add or remove electrons. A magnetic field won't do that.

se

BobM · « **Reply #9 on:** 4 Dec 2007, 06:21 pm »

We need a foot in mouth smiley! But I guess this one will work for now

Bob

Dan_ed · « **Reply #10 on:** 4 Dec 2007, 07:10 pm »

Yes, mag/demaging records does really work and it is a great tweak. Right up there with a cable upgrade. No, you don't need to spend $1800 (ridiculous audiophool pricing!) on the Furutech, nor $200 on Walker's Talisman. Both of which need repeated application, I believe.

Find yourself a magnetizer and you'll be way ahead financially and the effects will probably be more permanent.

Oh, forgot this. The idea is to apply magnetic field and then slowly draw it away from the lp. You can do it while the record is still in the cover.

BobM · « **Reply #11 on:** 4 Dec 2007, 07:45 pm »

It sounds like the old demag sticks that we used on tape heads back in the day. Now those demag wands were pretty small & designed for a 1/2" tape head. Will they work on a record or do I need something larger. How about a bulk tape eraser?

Bob

Steve Eddy · « **Reply #12 on:** 4 Dec 2007, 08:23 pm »

Quote from: BobM on 4 Dec 2007, 07:45 pm

It sounds like the old demag sticks that we used on tape heads back in the day. Now those demag wands were pretty small & designed for a 1/2" tape head. Will they work on a record or do I need something larger. How about a bulk tape eraser?

Nah, you'd need something like a bulk tape eraser.

se

ricmon · « **Reply #13 on:** 4 Dec 2007, 08:25 pm »

Great link. When some one finds a good product that does this for little money please post.

BobM · « **Reply #14 on:** 4 Dec 2007, 08:57 pm »

Try here:

http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&_trksid=m37&satitle=bulk+tape+eraser&category0=

Looks like there are a few here for about $15-20. Anyone want to try one of these and report back to the group?

Bob

S Clark · « **Reply #15 on:** 4 Dec 2007, 09:25 pm »

Perhaps I am not knowledgeable about vinyl to understand its composition, but I have never heard of it containing any material capable of retaining magnetic field orientation- Fe, Ni, etc

. Therefore, I am skeptical of the effects of demagnetizing something that shouldn't give off a measurable magnetic field.

topround · « **Reply #16 on:** 4 Dec 2007, 09:30 pm »

OK
it did nothing for static electricity, he said it demagged particles that were in the record when manufactured. All I know is it worked and it was not subtle.
Not sure if a bulk tape eraser would work, I am sure the science behind the Furutech unit is not that sophisticated, so maybe it would work. but then again I heard the difference on a 100K $ turntable, maybe a lesser TT would not be able to discern the differences as noticeably as that monster.

Dan_ed · « **Reply #17 on:** 4 Dec 2007, 09:54 pm »

Quote from: S Clark on 4 Dec 2007, 09:25 pm

Perhaps I am not knowledgeable about vinyl to understand its composition, but I have never heard of it containing any material capable of retaining magnetic field orientation- Fe, Ni, etc . Therefore, I am skeptical of the effects of demagnetizing something that shouldn't give off a measurable magnetic field.

No, that's not what happens. If you ever went there, go back and review vector calculus. My take is that what is happening is the electrons are being manipulated into a more randomly distributed pattern. Whether or not the improved playback has anything to do with the use of magnets in the cartridge to reproduce the sounds. . .? I don't really know how this works, but it is very audible if your system is decently resolving.

Wayner · « **Reply #18 on:** 4 Dec 2007, 10:29 pm »

I doubt if there are impurities in the form of irons (Fe) embedded in the vinyl. We would then have "rusty records". If someone is going to claim to me that they are demagnetizing vinyl, which has no magnetic properties, then the claim is false. If the claim is that the unit neutralizes static electrical charges (inherent with vinyl), then I can believe that. I use the Zerostat gun and it can "neutralize static charges on the vinyl. I assume the Furutech is oscillating between positive and negative charges to remove static discharge from the record. This will remove tics, and any static components on the surface that may have an effect on poorly shielded cartridge bodies as well. This could account for the cleaner sound.

Wayne

topround · « **Reply #19 on:** 4 Dec 2007, 10:44 pm »

Sorry Wayne,
But that is not what was happening, the demagger has nothing to do with static electricity,
It sounds crazy, and he said people think he is crazy, but I heard it.
the pops and cracks were still there on the record, but the tone and blacks improved(for me)