[stereocilia]

Russell when you said that about producing cylinders I had to laugh at myself for not thinking of it!  duh! Good point.  Now, I wonder if it would be possible to make a mold of the cylinder out of something that expands when heated just enough to allow copies to pop out?  Still, that's not as easy as squishing hot vinyl between plates, I guess.

There's a great TV show called 'How It's Made;' both vinyl records and cds have been featured.

I've also heard that Edison didn't sleep much, no more than a few hours per night.  The train story sounds suspicious, though.  Even if it's true being pulled by the ears is almost surely not the cause.  I can't think of a mechanism from which gradual onset hearing loss could happen from that.

[SET Man]

Was Edison deaf?

Hey!

  Actually that is ture... well maybe near deaf. Kind of irony that he came up with phonograph and work in that field years after before he gave it business up.

  I remembered correctly I've watch a show call "Modern Marvel" on History Channel about audio and of course we can not talk about audio without mentioning Edison. There were a section show a disc machine, a prototype I think,  that Edison designed and at the edge of that machine there is a bite mark on it. They believe that at that point around early to mid '20 his hearing was very bad that he have to check the sound by biting on the machine

   BTW... that was a great episode, Michael Fremer was in there also.

Take care,
Buddy

[SET Man]

Hey!

  Oh! BTW... I found this Brit site about sound recording process, with a good history of acoustical recording process.



http://www.charm.rhul.ac.uk/content/KCL_resources/beardsley_brief_history.html

   No electronic needed. Just play it through the recording horn to the cutting needle on the lathe. A pure direct to disc process... doesn't get any purer than this! Pretty amazing isn't it?

   Pretty good read with nice photos and audio samples.

Take care,
Buddy

[Russell Dawkins]

Well, I have done some reading and it appears cylinders were molded from 1901 on, but lost out to discs because of the shorter playing time of the cylinder (2 min vs 4) and the fact that discs were still easier to mold.

Up to that point, recording sessions consisted of as large a number of recording machines as the studio could afford, each recording one cylinder. There was no duplication, so the musicians had to repeat the performance for a new batch of cylinders.

As a result, there was no such thing as two identical cylinder recordings from this era.

Even if it was the same performance of the tune, the position of the recording horn had to be slightly different for each cylinder. In the mid 1980s, in the earliest days of digital recording, there was a project afoot to find pairs of cylinders from the same session (many had inscribed codes with unique numbers for each session and each machine) so that the recordings could both be played back and time-aligned with the aid of digital processing and one sent to each channel for a form of stereo reproduction!

Here is an interesting site, with a number of cylinders for the hearing, including the first known recording, from 1878:
http://www.tinfoil.com/

In that photo you posted, Buddy, of the recording session, notice the player nearest the camera - he is playing a recording violin (not sure if that is the correct term). I have seen one of these, and they are pretty amazing. There is no body, but the bridge the strings go over is on a diaphragm like the one on the old phonographs which is funneled to two horns - a larger one pointed at the recording horn and a shorter one pointing at the player's ears! This is all very clearly visible in the foreground.

[lonewolfny42]

In that photo you posted, Buddy, of the recording session, notice the player nearest the camera - he is playing a recording violin (not sure if that is the correct term). I have seen one of these, and they are pretty amazing.

http://www.digitalviolin.com/StrohViolin1.html

http://larkinthemorning.com/product.asp?pn=VIO080&Stroh+Horn+Violin,+Aluminum=&bhcd2=1196498117

http://www.amazon.com/Lark-In-The-Morning-Violin/dp/B0002HSLMU

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stroh_violin

[Russell Dawkins]

That's the beast, Chris. Surprisingly they are still being made in Germany:

http://www.strohviolin-shop.com/en/index.php

Sound samples are there and the  prices are not so bad - 400 Euros for brass and cheaper for aluminum.

[BrianM]

Of course no one would prefer to listen to an instrumental ensemble recorded with the acoustic method over the electrical that had developed by the 1920s.  The frequency range was too limited, and capturing anything like the harmonics of a violin (or a soprano voice) was impossible.  (And forget about ensemble cohesion or balance.)  But for a soloist singing directly into the horn it wasn't so terrible; which is why great singers like Caruso, or Battistini (or even Patti, despite being clearly past her prime) could say that their talents were being fairly represented on disc. Unfortunately the great soprano divas of that day often sound like white-ish voices on record, since the horn captured the fundamental tone and little else.  Still, if one knows what to listen for the old cylinder recordings are amazing documents of the style and unbelievable prowess common among late 19th and early 20th century opera singers. (This can be heard more easily with the lower voices, whose total sound could be reproduced more accurately.) For every mega-star opera singer of the post WWII era you could find four or five of equal talent & ability from the dawn of the recording age.

[stereocilia]

A saxophone player friend of mine said that the term 'jam session' originated from the fact that musicians were jammed into a small space during the recording process.  (I'm suspicious, though.)

Regarding the hearing loss, I gave it some more thought.  If Edison had enlarged vestibular aqueducts then head trauma could trigger hearing loss.  But I don't think it would be gradual.  That would also explain biting a machine to hear it better, as the inner ear could receive more sound through bone conduction.

Are those GIK panels on the ceiling? 

[Russell Dawkins]

I've got to say the quality of the 1898 Berliner etched (?) disc surprised me:

http://www.charm.rhul.ac.uk/content/KCL_resources/History_01.mp3

(found on the site that Buddy linked to)

[SET Man]

In that photo you posted, Buddy, of the recording session, notice the player nearest the camera - he is playing a recording violin (not sure if that is the correct term). I have seen one of these, and they are pretty amazing. There is no body, but the bridge the strings go over is on a diaphragm like the one on the old phonographs which is funneled to two horns - a larger one pointed at the recording horn and a shorter one pointing at the player's ears! This is all very clearly visible in the foreground.

Hey!

   Russell, thanks for pointed that out. Very interesting. And I thought the guy is playing some kind of horn instrument. Turn out to be a horned violin.

    Look like it was born because of the acoustical recording process. So, this mean that on some old violin recording from that ear might be made from these instrument. 

   Anyway, I've heard one live but I don't think it will sound as good as the real wooden body violin . But it is very interesting.

I've got to say the quality of the 1898 Berliner etched (?) disc surprised me:

http://www.charm.rhul.ac.uk/content/KCL_resources/History_01.mp3

(found on the site that Buddy linked to)

    Yup, surprising isn't it? I'm glad that someone actually preserved and take good care of old recording like these.

A saxophone player friend of mine said that the term 'jam session' originated from the fact that musicians were jammed into a small space during the recording process.  (I'm suspicious, though.)

Are those GIK panels on the ceiling? 

    You know I think that is possible of how that term came from.

   Oh! Yeah, those panels on the ceiling definitely acoustic panels. Wonder what material are they made up of?

Take care,
Buddy

[SET Man]

Hey!

   Found this nice site with a sort of audio history time line

http://history.sandiego.edu/gen/recording/notes.html#origins

   Make a good interesting reading with some interesting pictures too!

Take care,
Buddy

[Wind Chaser]

1935 - Elvis Presley was born January 8 and died in 1977 after selling 41 million albums, recording 107 Top-40 hit songs, making 33 movies, and shook hands with President Richard Nixon (photo at right of meeting 12/21/71) However, Bing Crosby who also died in 1977 recorded 1600 hit songs, sold 500 million records, made 61 movies, but probably never shook Nixon's hand.

This took my by surprise.  Granted Bing was born 33 years prior, but I hardly think that gave him an edge in sales given the virtual absence and then infancy of the recording industry.

[BrianM]

"500 million" has the ring of a "worldwide estimate" to it.  Isn't Michael Jackson's Thriller believed to have sold 100 million worldwide?  Obviously we're talking about all of Bing's records together, but still.

"41 million," otoh, kinda sounds like Elvis' total U.S. sales.  But right now I'm too lazy to look it up...

Maybe it's worth remembering that for much of his early career Elvis was far from popular with the older generation, who would've still been lapping up Bing Crosby and all his emulators.  Maybe that tips the scales in Bing's favor.

[Gordy]

I'm wondering if Bing's annual Christmas album sales over the years was enough to bump up his numbers like that???

Thanks Buddy!  That was the link I was looking for a month ago, I forget how I was pointed to it the first time.... 

[SET Man]

Hey!

    Found these interesting old film on YouTube. Instead of starting a new thread I think it is better to put them here. Well after all it is a little history of audio for us to watch

    "Performance Command" RCA Victor's records manufacturing process from 1942.

Part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xwe-Mt99Dw

Part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxhiUgK5gzs

   Fascinating film from 1942 The factory located in Camden, NJ. Look like they are making 12" 78rpm shellac discs.

   Anyway, a little backgound. RCA bought out Victor Talking Machine Co. in 1929 and have all the right to Victor record labels and archives.

    Anyway, hope you guys enjoy this.

Take care,
Buddy