[Danny Richie]

[Darren Thomas]

purrrrrrrty! I like em.

[Brian Bunge]

Hey Darren, I like them too! (we built the cabinets, so I'm a bit biased!)

[Darren Thomas]

Hey Darren, I like them too! (we built the cabinets, so I'm a bit biased!)

Er, I mean THEY SUCK!!! Kidding. I've always admired your work Brian so it makes sense that I liked them

Keep up the good work!

Darren

[Hoots]

How do you think they sound compared to the old Paradox?

I've heard the Paradox side-by-side with the Onix Ref2.    What would you recommend for multi-purpose 2-channel and 5.1?  I like the expensive full range floor standers I've heard like KEF R205, mbl 300e but need to scale back on price but I'm not sure I want to go all the way to a bookshelf. The Alpha is too tall for my 16x20' room.  The Paradox were a nice size.

[Danny Richie]

How do you think they sound compared to the old Paradox?

I take it that you are referring to the Paradox-3's?

Because of the Focal tweeter the Paradox-3's excelled with handling brass instruments and cymbals.

The wide dispersion of high frequency information gave a good even response to pretty far off axis. This could often be a con though as it caused reflected energy in the high frequency ranges to be a bit much in overly bright rooms. Well controlled rooms were more necessary with these than with most speakers.

The Paradox-3 were also more sensitive to electronics. Tube amps were a better match with them than a mid-fi receiver.

The Paradox-3's larger woofer extended the low end response to -3db at 35Hz. This is a little lower than the new A/V-3.

The new A/V-3, on the other hand, are more natural with acoustic instruments and vocals.

While the new A/V-3's do not extend as low as the Paradox-3's the bass response is more controlled, has better dampening, is faster, and has better detail. Some of this is due to the transmission line loading.

The A/V-3 also is less sensitive to room reflections and mid-fi electronics.

With high end gear I prefer the sound of the new A/V-3's. Imaging, and detail level is all very good, and easy to listen to even at high levels.

The A/V-3 also has a smoother response from end to end.

I've heard the Paradox side-by-side with the Onix Ref2.

Hmm, that sounds like an interesting comparison. I believe the Ref 2's are about twice the price of what we sold the Paradox-3's for. Did they sound twice as good?

What would you recommend for multi-purpose 2-channel and 5.1?

For left and right mains I would recommend our A/V-3's.

You can then add other models from our A/V line to be used as a center or rears that will match the sound of the mains.

For a center you can use the sealed box version of the A/V-3. It matches the mains with less low end extension and has good off axis horizontal response to no more than 30 degrees off axis. Not bad for an MTM on its side.

For a similar sound with better off axis response a single shielded A/V-1 will work well. Though it does have lower sensitivity.

A/V-1's can also be used for the rears.

[Brian Bunge]

Damn, look at those 3 maple speakers sitting together!  I feel like a proud Papa!

[Hoots]

Danny,
So you recommend the AV instead of the new Latin named ribbon tweeter speakers?  

The AV3's probably are closer to the more expensive speaker I mentioned above with a cabinet and driver size and count very similar.  One of the things I liked about the Paradox was the full low sound although as you mention there are probably some trade-offs.  There seemed to be more clarity with the others but I was hungry for a sub using just an Outlaw 1050...not so with the Paradox.  Perhaps back to sub for AV3?  I find this an interesting discussion because the detlas between what I heard may be similar between the AV3 and Paradox?

I'm interested in using Dodd tube gear (I currently run vintage tube gear) with HT pass-through to the outlaw.

You seem to have a very strong price/performance value proposition.  I mention the other just as a reference since I had the opportunity to compare them not to stir up trouble.  

The web site says no cabinets until Spring....'04?  Any idea what the assembled pair would run?  Any vaneer choices?

[/quote]

[Danny Richie]

So you recommend the AV instead of the new Latin named ribbon tweeter speakers?

You said home theater not just high end two channel.

Perhaps back to sub for AV3?

I think it depends on the music.

The A/V-3's don't have a sharp roll off at the bottom and they cover a lot of low frequency information pretty well but just don't move a lot of air.

Room size will make a difference too. In a big room you may want a sub regardless of how low they will reach just to move some more air.

I find this an interesting discussion because the detlas between what I heard may be similar between the AV3 and Paradox?

That is possible but hard for me to confirm. I don't know what the differences were that you heard with your comparisons.

I'm interested in using Dodd tube gear (I currently run vintage tube gear) with HT pass-through to the outlaw.

Gary has a six channel passive pre-amp in the concept stage, and amps with a gain control to be used to balance the output levels.

You seem to have a very strong price/performance value proposition.

Thanks. I work real hard at that.

The web site says no cabinets until Spring....'04? Any idea what the assembled pair would run? Any vaneer choices?

That was spring 2003. Cabinets are available now. They are $400. each as pictured above in Maple. Same price for Oak, and Cherry.

If you want something fancy, it can be arranged.

$1,450. right now for a fully assembled pair with Sonicaps and Blackhole 5. Plus shipping.

Right now Brian has been a little backed up with enclosure orders and the waiting period for finished enclosures has been about one month plus shipping time.

[LouD]

Mine don't look that purty, since I've been too busy listening to them to do the faux leather finish my wife wants.  But oh boy do they sound good!  Much deeper reach than the AV1, and no great need for a sub with my musical tastes.  It seems like the mids/mid-high area is more cleanly resolved as well for some reason.  Incredible diy bargain at under $400  Don't be intimidated by the Tline design, it is actually pretty easy to build, as opposed to something like the Ariel.  

Also wanted to report in on Danny' interconnect and speaker cable recipies.  Three wire braid, 20 or 22 gauge silver plated copper/teflon covered from Apex Jr. So cheap it is practically free, so I splurged on Eichmann coppers. Big difference, even on a minimal setup--heck, my wife asked me what I did without prompting from me!  Of course, that's replacing Radio Shack junk, so don't expect too much.

Also got excellent results from the speaker cable he recommended: Take two 18 gauge silver plated copper/teflon wires, twist lightly into a pair (about two twists per foot) just enuf to hold em together.  Repeat and make two more pairs, then do a simple triple braid of all three pairs, e.g. six wires altogether for each speaker.   Twist together one lead from each pair for the hot, the remainder for ground.  Terminate to taste.  Beats the hell out of 10 gauge Sound King.