[acd483]

acd483,

Actually I have a decent (about $2500 MSRP) 2nd system set up in the living room for all to enjoy, but like most here no one else in the family is interested. 

I can count the number of times in 6 years that my wife has turned on the stereo on one hand.  Everyone else in the house would rather curl up with a TV, computer, iPod, or Gameboy.

Perhaps its more pretentious to try up the main living space with your equipment and music.

You shouldn't expect people to come into your house and comment on sound reproduction. To me, they should enjoy themselves and be subconsciously aware that some aspect of the party is *right*. There is simply no pretense in that.

Every aspect of our lives involves compromise. Linkwitz has an extremely admirable goal of reproducing music in real living spaces with performance that fools the mind and ear. I can tell you, they work, and they work better than in any dedicated listening room I've been in.

I don't expect people to listen or comment (unless showing them "the system"), but my family just doesn't want to "sit and listen".  Due to circumstances "parties" are few, but again most visitors consider music an annoyance or at the least an obstruction to conversation.  Personally I agree that background music is very nice, but wifey "just wants the house to be quiet" when she's home alone.

I've heard a few dipoles.  Their presentation is obviously different than "traditional" speakers, but not necessarily better.  (They are my 2nd favorite speaker design.)  But I consider the room as an important component of any system.  Even the Orions (I do respect SL and his goal) need some sort of decent room to work well in.  My compromise is to put the best system in the best room for it to be enjoyed by someone who appreciates it, the 2nd best system in a common room (that no one uses  ), and the 3rd best system in the HT set up.

I suggest you sell the system that no one uses and that you audition the Orions. I'm not aware of what a "decent room" is...my living space seems decent enough, but again, the Orion speakers are designed to work exceptionally well outside a dedicated listening room.

It seems to me that people around here don't really like the idea that music and sound reproduction weave into daily life through ipods, etc. and that rather sound reproduction should be this pursuit to be handled in a special room requiring special treatments and exotic equipment. How boring! If it is about the music...let that happen where we live and work. The Orions present the music in an engaging way, a way that even when played in the background, will pull you back in for repeat critical listening. I tell you these deliver the exiting aspect of this hobby...the music.

[sunshinedawg]

Interesting.  I am not sure I would want to apply the same sounds to all my recordings.  It would seem to me that it would add a bit of homogeneity.  Do you do this to studio produced albums?  I am very interested in what you are doing.

I use different hall IR's accordingly with the type of music I'm listening to. I have 4 or 5 symphony halls, a couple of jazz halls, church, pavillion, stadium, etc etc. If you like tweaking cables, amps etc., imagine how much fun you could have changing and tweaking halls. You can even design your own halls. There are thousands of hall IR's out there.

You can definitely do it to studio albums. However, occasionally you will come across a recording where some engineer felt like he had to over process the music to death. Ideally you want recordings with minimal processing so you can marry it to what ever hall you want. The best recordings I've found are Blumlein, such as the Chesky label and I have a few from Russell Dawkins that are very good as well. Some of the best recordings I have are mono from the early part of 20th century. The recording technique was very simple and they have zero processing , they are so pure it's amazing.

[doug s.]

i used to have a jvc xpa1010 - it really is an amazing device.  unfortunately, it was destroyed in a fit of domestic rage.  (don't ask!)     when i used it, it was in a huge room - ~26x38; the surrounds were placed in the front & rear corners, used only to create ambient sounds, mimicking warious wenues, as prewiously described.  it was quite effective.  altho i did not have my main speakers so close together as described here.  actually, the way i understand it, not only do you want your main speakers close together. but you want sound separation (think something like bed mattresses) in a line from between the main speakers all the way to your head - a complete sound barrier between l & r channel.

in my system, tho, the "illusion' i got from conwentional 2-channel was so good i listened w/o the surrounds more often than with...

ymmv,

doug s.

[sunshinedawg]

i used to have a jvc xpa1010 - it really is an amazing device.  unfortunately, it was destroyed in a fit of domestic rage.  (don't ask!)     when i used it, it was in a huge room - ~26x38; the surrounds were placed in the front & rear corners, used only to create ambient sounds, mimicking warious wenues, as prewiously described.  it was quite effective.  altho i did not have my main speakers so close together as described here.  actually, the way i understand it, not only do you want your main speakers close together. but you want sound separation (think something like bed mattresses) in a line from between the main speakers all the way to your head - a complete sound barrier between l & r channel.

in my system, tho, the "illusion' i got from conwentional 2-channel was so good i listened w/o the surrounds more often than with...

ymmv,

doug s.

Yes it is amazing, it is the one piece of equipment I could never part with. I'm modding it right now to have digital outs, so that I can run digital into my panny xr45 for a totally digital chain. You are correct, you don't need the ambiance but it helps complete the sound field. You no longer have to use the barrier. The Tact 2.2 xp has a XTC mode in it, there are various other ways to do now as well. Some easy, some not so easy.

[Housteau]

It seems to me that people around here don't really like the idea that music and sound reproduction weave into daily life through ipods, etc. and that rather sound reproduction should be this pursuit to be handled in a special room requiring special treatments and exotic equipment. How boring!

I don't think that is true.  I believe that most can appreciate that sort of casual listening.  It certainly has its place, but it is an apples and oranges sort of thing when compared to what I consider defines High End audio.  They are two different camps of belief with different goals and ways to approach them.  For example, my time and energy on music reproduction is spent where I can achieve the best rewards in what I value the most.

[sts9fan]

Personally I feel isolated rooms take away from HiFi.  The geeky isolation makes the hobby as a whole suffer. 

[nathanm]

If you're in your house listening to music you want to listen to on equipment you like I don't see how that's making anyone suffer, much less "the hobby". 

But if anyone doesn't like isolation and prefers more of a "sharing" musical experience please come and move into my building.  We can listen to each other's music with only a moderate HF rolloff!    Or better yet I will also rent out use of my VMPS subwoofer, it will sound better in your unit anyway.  We'll get some kind of wireless thing for the LFE channel.  You can put on that Kodo CD and have my sub play your bass.  That's interactive Hi-Fi!

[woodsyi]

Personally I feel isolated rooms take away from HiFi.  The geeky isolation makes the hobby as a whole suffer. 

I have fun in my dungeon.   aa aa aa

[doug s.]

Personally I feel isolated rooms take away from HiFi.  The geeky isolation makes the hobby as a whole suffer. 

I have fun in my dungeon.   aa aa aa

glad to hear it - when i've been over, there's yust been a buncha audio geeks rockin' out to great tunes!   

[woodsyi]

glad to hear it - when i've been over, there's yust been a buncha audio geeks rockin' out to great tunes!   

Speaking of which, when are you hosting a party?  I thought you and Sid were planning on one this year.  Did you happen to leave some CDs behind?

[doug s.]

sidonie & i do wanna host a party; but since i got my deqx, it's only set up to listen with my piega's.  if folks don't wanna listen to any other speakers, they could come over any time, but i would really like to dial in at least my fostex's w/supertweeters, & my coincident victory's...  i finally got everything needed for hooking up the fostex/supertweeter's, (binding posts yust came in today), so i am closer... 

doug s.

glad to hear it - when i've been over, there's yust been a buncha audio geeks rockin' out to great tunes!   

Speaking of which, when are you hosting a party?  I thought you and Sid were planning on one this year.  Did you happen to leave some CDs behind?

[Bach]

Personally I feel isolated rooms take away from HiFi.  The geeky isolation makes the hobby as a whole suffer. 

So, can you please give us more wisdom of the extrovert?

[acd483]

You have a dinner party and are showing the guests around the house..."and here is my dedicated listening room"...cue the eye-rolling or the soft whispers in the background. That's what I think sts9fan is getting at. By putting hifi in a box (literally) you are shutting most others out of even being interested in achieving a better musical experience in their home.

On the other hand, you're at a dinner party, the host is showing you and other guests around..."and in the living room is our home theatre with 9.1 surround sound" cue the "oohs", "ahhs" and "we gotta experience this later" kind of comments.

I'll say it again, that's the brilliance of making speakers that perform exceptionally where people live. History has proven that people aren't adverse to spending on hi-fi reproduction, look at the continued success of Bose, it's that the products need to be relatively accessible, affordable and perform obviously well.

[JLM]

acd483,

Again I respect SL and his goals, but his room is not dinner party/family friendly if you have to place them out into the room (like most speakers should be).  I've never found uncompromised sound that "lifestyles" well.

When I get home the kids are watching cartoons and playing video games in the loft above the living room and wifey is in the bedroom watching TV and/or dinking on her laptop.  So how would turning on the stereo in the living room fit into "where they live"?

Showing people a complicated expensive system is another turn-off to most folks.  I enjoy talking audio and convincing others to get interested, but I'm not into audio to show off my system to guests per se.

The commerical success of Bose can be fully explaining in terms of effective marketing to the (to be blunt non-discerning) masses, not in concept or execution.  Lots of TVs are sold too, so should we follow that example and listen to all our music via the TV?  Lots of car stereos are sold, they're relatively accessible, affordable and perform well, should we install them in the living room? 

BTW selling the 10 year old $2500 MSRP living room system as used at market prices would probably net around $400, no where near the cost of the Orions.  Frankly any "decent" $6000 plus speaker/amp system aught to be impressive.

[acd483]

The kids and wife aren't interested in sitting down to well reproduced sound. You are. If the only way to achieve that is to retreat to your own quarters, that's what must be done.

As I said earlier, the place I want to reproduce sound well is in a studio while I work.

Basically, speakers should sound really well outside a dedicated listening room. Just as a TV looks perfectly fine outside a dedicated home theatre, one shouldn't think that a dedicated room is necessary to achieve awesome results.

As for the lesson of Bose's success...it's not that hifi must emulate it, it's that Bose has made "hifi" simple, better sounding to most than the speakers in the TV and cheap enough to justify buying. Until the audiophile world can cut its complexity and costs, most will opt out.