[bhobba]

Hi All

In thinking about how I would like to build up my system an idea I am toying with is to get a cheap panny for listening to movies and the radio sent over my foxtel.  When I want to do critical listening switching to the Soraya I hope to eventually get with USB DAC directly connected to it.  Does any one know of an easy way switching the amplifier cables to the speaker?  I remember my old speakers had banana plugs that made this a snap.  Trouble is they would work loose over time.

Thanks
Bill

[kyrill]

maybe not Bill

those more expensive ones are very sturdy
i have 4 they will never loose, but there is no brand on it
i would try with a well known brand it is very easy
the ones i have are like these

[bhobba]

maybe not Bill

those more expensive ones are very sturdy
i have 4 they will never loose, but there is no brand on it
i would try with a well known brand it is very easy
the ones i have are like these

Sounds great.  I really like the idea for critical listening having the paths as short as possible - dac to amp to speaker.  The ultimate solution of course is a fully modded DEQX.  But after crunching the sums the cost of a fully modded DEQX, $10000.00 and an extra Soraya amp at $4700, ie approx $15,000 all up, is a bit out of my price range at the moment.  Bob over at SP Tech was not happy with the performance of a stock DEQX.  Knowledgeable folks (yourself, Steve at Empirical audio who I would get to do the mods) have commented, when modded it is comparable to just about anything on the planet.  Later, when my super comes through, (about 2.5 years) the extra cost may be justifiable.  I may even have to delay getting a Soraya until my super comes through, depending on how my finances go.

Thanks
Bill

[kyrill]

the DEQX is not difficult to mod
1) First replace output caps  big hearable mod this you can do
2) replace burr brown  output chips for Burson Audio replace ments. This a local technician can do unless you know how to desolder a whole chip with its many many micro legs. I know i cant

above 2 make the DEQX already among the best
3) pws change some lpower caps change, and decouple the power lines from different modules and give them each their own regulated supply Complex. Must be done by a professional modder ( i am thinking of Payl Hynes as HIS prices are reasonable)

4) an I2S input? an USB input? Erghhh my local modder wrestles with this already 2 months.. and 2 months i am out of serious listening (
I could send the unit to EMpirical Audio who asks 1500$ only for the I2S mod.. and waiting in line until feb/march next year. Of course you pay half up front

I would start with the DEQX and the filmpcap output cap mod. Then it is already a dream machine and obliterates any Xover for super transparent and phase right virtual cross overs

[Audiovista]

I use locking banana plugs - quick swapping and pretty good reliability.

Quick search on ebay uncovered these:

http://cgi.ebay.com/8-Locking-Banana-Speaker-Cable-Plugs-4-Pair_W0QQitemZ270189907536QQihZ017QQcategoryZ14966QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Boris

[bhobba]

I would start with the DEQX and the filmpcap output cap mod. Then it is already a dream machine and obliterates any Xover for super transparent and phase right virtual cross overs

Thanks for the info.  I had done a 180% on a DEQX and decided on the usual passive route after I heard, without mods, it is not that great.  Now that the mods may not be that expensive the DEQX has come back into consideration.  My current thinking is to start with a good passive such as the SP Audio Timepiece-mini and a cheap panny, then look into the DEQX once finances permit.  Doing the sums - $6000.00 for the DEQX - less than a good pre + dac + and Soraya.  Of course I would still get the Soraya(s) later.  Decisions, decisions.

Thanks
Bill

[AKSA]

Bill,

This might help with your deliberations as you approach the discomforting aspects of purchase!!

The passive crossovers on most speakers significantly affect powerful, feedback SS amps and the reason people go to DEQX is so they can go active and use almost ideal digital filters so the drivers can be directly connected to the amps.

So far so good.....  but this approach has a number of repercussions.

#1  High cost of bi or tri amping the system
#2  High cost of a quality digital filter
#3  Inevitable upgrade requirements to the analog sections of the filter
#4  Loss of 'impact' and 'slam'  (transient response) due to the filtering regime
#5  The complexity of the system and inconvenience of adjusting levels

If an amp comes along which is almost completely resistant to the reactive kickback of a passive filter, and still offers the benefits of power, only two channels, and very high sonic quality, then most of the above repercussions are neatly obviated.

The Soraya is just such an amp.  My strong suggestion is that if you are patient I will send you one for audition and you can hear for yourself and tout it a little around Brisbane for other interested parties to hear.  I know of at least one who would be interested, a good friend of 30 years who lives in Tewantin and recently bought a LF100 and is interested to hear the Soraya CB105.

Would this seem appropriate?  I can do this with a fellow Awstrayan, shipping is moderate, and who knows, if you like it, you can buy it as it will be a full on retail product, ready for sale.

Cheers,

Hugh

[bhobba]

The Soraya is just such an amp.  My strong suggestion is that if you are patient I will send you one for audition and you can hear for yourself and tout it a little around Brisbane for other interested parties to hear.  I know of at least one who would be interested, a good friend of 30 years who lives in Tewantin and recently bought a LF100 and is interested to hear the Soraya CB105.

Thanks very much for your kind offer.  Right now I haven't even got my speakers yet - my current speakers are still sitting down my mothers place.  But anyway I am already sold on the Soraya - regardless of if I go the passive or DEQX route it is the amp I will be using.  It is simply the logistics of the upgrade path.  Mulling it around in my head, my initial reaction is that it is a bit too early in my systems evolutionary path to be looking at the Soraya.  I need to get new speakers first.  I had planned to drive them from a cheap panny to begin with.  I have heard the panny and can live with its digital sound as an interim measure - in fact compared to my current Rotel 5 ch amp it is not too bad at all.  Obviously not in the Soraya class of course.  Trouble with a panny though is that it doesn't have a pre out to upgrade the amp and I don't have a preamp I can use.  I had thought about getting something like a Marantz that has pre outs, and direct pure mode bypassing it digital gimmickry, but it is nearly twice the price of a panny, and a waste as an interim measure.  Hence my post about quickly changing speaker cables.  I had thought of getting the Soraya and a usb dac-preamp and simply switching cables.  Hmmm.  Thinking about it further that doesn't work too well either - I had thought of feeding the pre out into the DEQX - but the panny doesn't have a pre out.  I may have to fork out the extra dosh for a Marantz.

Bottom line is at this stage it is a bit too early for your kind offer to be of much value.  I may be able to get a Soryara and other better components before my super money comes through in about 2.5 years time, but there is no guarantee.  About all I can say is what I said when I started posting again - it probably won't be until 2009 before I can really do anything - and probably 2010 before the Sorarya is on my radar.  Rest assured, regardless of what path I take, I will post a detailed review of how the Soraya sounds using both blind and non blind listening tests compared to whatever amp I upgrade it from.

Also thanks for the technical info of the pro and cons on passive vs a DEQX.  Being a techy from way back (I am an applied math freak and love analysing stuff that way) that sort of background is all appreciated.  My sister just asked to use my computer so I have to cut my ramplings short amd get on with some other things for a while.

Thanks
Bill

[LM]

Bill,

Your last post helps to crystalise where you are likely to go with this combined system.

Some time ago, I went down the route of replacing my existing stereo with a good quality surround receiver based system thinking stereo had had its day.  I then spent a lot of time money and effort over the years getting good stereo back but in the end, got tired of battling the compromises and separated out the stereo to a second room and now have two optimal systems.  The only reason I say this is that there is some very good surround music out there and a cheap ‘non musical’ surround receiver will likely frustrate you after a time if you ever want to explore that area in a quality way.  Yes, you are coming from the opposite direction to me in this but there are lots of difficulties (read expenses and frustrations) in trying to get a single system to do everything well.  Not impossible, just very hard.

So my advice is go second hand if you can for a musical receiver.  Particularly with retirement coming up, one can’t afford to go down an expensive dead-end.  Arcam, NAD or Marantz would be my recommendations (for you to listen to and decide between) unless you need all the modern bells and whistles and HDMI 1.3 or HD etc.

Also, I personally would take up Hugh’s offer and make your judgement on the Soraya sooner rather than later.  Much better in my opinion to have your strategic plans firmly in place as early as possible.  It may also help with an early decision on your 'DEQX or not' path.  Pity you are not down Melbourne way, would love you to be able to hear a Soraya in its natural environment, Hugh's place or mine.

As to the banana’s, Jaycar carry ordinary ones at a bit under $4 and quite good twist lock ones at a bit under $5.  Word of caution though, I always add a layer of insulation to their otherwise gold metallic exteriors (I use appropriate size red/black shrinkwrap) as a short will kill many receivers completely though the Soraya is in another league here.  Sooner or later, in fumbling a swap over after forgetting to turn something off, this is a possibility if it’s done everyday.

[bhobba]

So my advice is go second hand if you can for a musical receiver. 

Now that's a good idea.

Also, I personally would take up Hugh’s offer and make your judgement on the Soraya sooner rather than later.

Judgement already made.  It is one component I will get for sure.

Thanks
Bill

[rabbitz]

The passive crossovers on most speakers significantly affect powerful, feedback SS amps and the reason people go to DEQX is so they can go active and use almost ideal digital filters so the drivers can be directly connected to the amps.

I went passive tweeter and mid combined with active bass (150W+) to a passive filter on the bass driver when I installed the LF55 which is reverse to normal thinking. Insane? No, as I wanted all the frequencies handled by the LF55 and I didn't want or need 2 or more amps. The result is magic and cohesion and sonics better than before.

Passives still have a lot to offer, as do active of course. It's all about choices to achieve a result and I prefer the sonics of 1 amp to do all the frequencies.

[kyrill]

hi
"...nd I prefer the sonics of 1 amp to do all the frequencies. "

So make yourself happy and buy 3 LF as in an active setup?

[rabbitz]

The passive is fine with 1 amp thank you. Most of the cost in the passives are the inductors plus add one LF55 which is a bit more economical for me than an active 3-way and it's associated costs. BTW, my passion is speaker design and building and not in electronics which I tolerate as it's necessary.

I find this setup more cohesive than any active setup I've heard bar one. I know I probably need to hear one that is set up well, and there is the problem... most are not setup well or use crappy opamps and components.  IMO, it's harder to get an active xo correct than a passive xo. I also have a dislike of LR4 xo's and prefer lower orders and their wider overlaps and more gentle slopes. If I can land LR2 acoustic slopes, I'm a happy builder. Even B&W is discovering the benefits of lower orders on their high end speakers but also state it's very driver dependant to pull it off.

I prefer to keep the system simple so there is not another device such as and active xo in the path which has to have an effect on the sound. I'm not anti opamp but I've yet to try one in a pre or CD audio stage that sounded better than a good discrete circuit. By simple I mean CD > buffer > passive pre > LF55 > speaker. Just a path I've taken which is just one of the many possibilities. If you go active and are happy, good on you, as it's the end result that counts and not the path taken.

[kyrill]

hehe  it was just a teaser  but texts misses nonverbals, the real language of the brain

[rabbitz]

I knew that.