[brj]

I'm pondering the idea of a universal remote as a holiday gift for my parents this year in an effort to reduce their media system confusion.  This isn't an area I've researched a great deal yet, so I'm looking for some suggestions...

There are two main area in which their current, rather basic universal remote fails - input selection and command cycle time.

There does not seem to be a reliable way to select inputs on products (TV and receiver) that don't have discrete input selection buttons - you can only cycle through the inputs to get from one to the other, rather than select "input 3" directly.  So, for example, say you want to program a remote so that by hitting the "CD" button, the remote switches the receiver from whatever source was previously selected to the CD input.  Since there is no guaranteed way the remote can know what the previous input was, it can't know how many inputs to cycle through to get to the new selection.  (The remote could try and log all input selections made via remote and thus remember the last input selection, but if the user changes the input via the unit itself, it would have no way of knowing.)  So... how do current universal remotes deal with this?

The other issue is command cycle time.... the macros their current remote has programmed to try and handle a major system change (setting all components up for "TV" or "DVD" or "CD", etc.) takes 3-4 seconds to fully execute, as there are several steps involved including components powering up and down or coming in and out of standby.  More than once, the remote is pointed at the system only during the initial button press, after which it is moved and some commands in the macro get missed by the IR repeater.  I don't know if remotes are any faster now, or if the jump to an RF capable remote with RF to IR unit inside the media center would solve the problem, but that is the other issue I'm looking to address.

Current components include a Sharp LC-37D40U LCD TV connected to a cable box with HD, a 15+ year old Mitsubishi receiver, Oppo DV-970HD DVD player, a 15+ year old Kenwood 6-disk CD player, and a 10+ year old Mitsubishi VCR.  A new inexpensive receiver is an option this year to help simplify the problem only if the universal remote isn't too expensive.  Of course, maybe the receiver this year is the better idea...

So, with this background, does anyone have any remote suggestions, or general comments on how to deal with some of these issues?

Many thanks!

[Big Red Machine]

URC models have punch-thru programability so that "play" can always mean the Oppo for instance, no matter which other device is presently selected.  In my theater I can dim the lights by going to the "Lites" menu and select which one I want, but also hit play or fast forward w/o switching out of Lites mode to start the HD DVD player.

If you want to get into menu items on the DVD plater, then by hitting the DVD button on the remote, you are there with all the depth you need to operate the player.  (not items readily available in punch-thru)


I use an MX700 unit that hooks right to the computer for downloading or uploading.  You can manually program the URC with another remote face-to-face and then upload that to the comptuer for safe keeping, or download remote codes and macros from their library on line.  Very handy.

I can toggle between devices in seconds and do this in the dark with the backlighting of the remote display screen.  Very fast and slick.

Hope that helps.

http://www.remotecentral.com/

[MaxCast]

I have the MX-500 ($80) which is similar to the 700 w/o the computer interface.
The link Pete gave is a good one.  9 page review on the mx-500.
Depending on which screen you are on, you may have a two button push to change inputs.  Say you were on the DVD page on the lcd screen.  You have to push main page then select vcr.  However, those punch through buttons come in handy.

I think the delay in macros are there on purpose.  You don't want everything coming on at once.

[samplesj]

Keep in mind that just because the OEM remote doesn't have a discrete function it doesn't mean one isn't availble.  Check remote central and you might be happily suprised.  TOAD SUCKS!

Remember it isn't just about buying a single remote to replace the others, but its really about buying a remote that lets you define actions.  A cheap store universal or even a nicer receiver remote doesn't really give that action based freedom.

I've got a MX-500 and a MX-850.  I also gave my parents an MX-850 (a hex code based discrete I needed wasn't available on the 500, but I could get it with my 850 so I bought another 850 instead of another 500). 

It seems that URC is moving away from IR model and a RF model.  Instead all of them support RF, but you don't get a base station with the cheaper model that replaced the IR only.

RF is totally the way to go.  I actually run 2 different base stations (one in the back of the HT for the projector and lights and then one in the adjoining eq room).  Pointing is a pain for many users. 

The computer based ones to me are worth it because it is so much simpler to configure to give the utmost simplicity.  My non computer programmable mx-500 is bare bones just because its so much more work to configure it.

[brj]

Thanks for the replies everyone!

I've heard of the RC website, but haven't really investigate it much yet.  The big problem is the discrete input selection, as it sounds like RF covers the other issue pretty handily.  I agree that some components may have codes for discrete inputs, even if not documented, but I wasn't expecting much out of the 15+ year old components.

I'll do some more research ASAP, but I'm traveling for the holidays at the moment, followed by travel for work, so my internet access will be a bit sporadic.  If you have any more comments or suggestions, I'd very much appreciate them!

Thanks again!

[randytsuch]

Hi
I have a harmony 890 rf and ir rermote.

Harmony has a web based setup system for their remotes.

So, even if you don't own their remote, you can create an account, and set it up.

They also have a huge database, so chances are very good that all your deviced are already in their db.

This would let you create a harmony account, tell it what devices you have, and see what commands are possible with those devices.

BTW, I like my 890

Randy

[tizeye]

As I read this with the continued quest for something wife can use, I have the cheaper/discontinued URC 200 'automator'.  Nice remote, but noone has addressed the issue in paragraph 3 of the original post.  Is it or can it be resolved with any universal remote?

Specifically, yes you can push functions from one device to another - channel change from tv to cable, volume to AV receiver etc - but it is the toggling functions on the devices that seem problematic for remote programing as the remote loses track of where the last setting was.  Examples of toggling functions is where no descrete switch and include power on/off, input 1,2,3 etc.

Works great with programing of individual components (page one of main menu) but wife gets confused manually going through each component.  On page 2 of main menu created "Macro On" "Macro Off" with sub-menus TV, DVD, Audio, VCR for whatever wanted to do.  Works great if everything is off and TV only was last watched, but gets confused if anything is currently running.  Example, TV receives "on" input and turns off, not accepting the input change with AV reeiver and DVD turning on, but of course, no input.  All thanks to the toggling switches. 

Do other remote resolve this, or is it something you just have to live with?

[MaxCast]

There may be discrete codes that are not on the original remote (like direct input codes).  You have to find them and program them in.

I'm in the process of researching this now...something so simple, yet so hard.

[randytsuch]

As I read this with the continued quest for something wife can use, I have the cheaper/discontinued URC 200 'automator'.  Nice remote, but noone has addressed the issue in paragraph 3 of the original post.  Is it or can it be resolved with any universal remote?

Specifically, yes you can push functions from one device to another - channel change from tv to cable, volume to AV receiver etc - but it is the toggling functions on the devices that seem problematic for remote programing as the remote loses track of where the last setting was.  Examples of toggling functions is where no descrete switch and include power on/off, input 1,2,3 etc.

Works great with programing of individual components (page one of main menu) but wife gets confused manually going through each component.  On page 2 of main menu created "Macro On" "Macro Off" with sub-menus TV, DVD, Audio, VCR for whatever wanted to do.  Works great if everything is off and TV only was last watched, but gets confused if anything is currently running.  Example, TV receives "on" input and turns off, not accepting the input change with AV reeiver and DVD turning on, but of course, no input.  All thanks to the toggling switches. 

Do other remote resolve this, or is it something you just have to live with?

The harmony remotes have a help function.  After you start an activity, it asks if everything is OK.  If things are not right, it starts askings questions, like "is TV on?".  When you say no to a question like this, it will try to fix it.  My devices have discrete input codes, so I have not had any issues with it going to the right input.

Randy

[brj]

I'm seeing a lot of comments on the Harmony remotes... are these selections the result of extended research that led to their selection over something else, or some other factor?

I did jot down exact component model numbers when I was home over the holidays, so now I'm attempting to find out what degree of control they might have with different remotes.  I did get a list of discrete codes for the Sharp Aquos LCD TVs.  (The Sharp support person indicated that all Sharp Aquos TVs used the same discrete codes, which is a bit at odds with some of what I've read online, but I'll have to run with it for now and hope they work for the LC-37D40U.)

Any other recommendations for RF capable universal remotes with parent friendly interfaces that won't completely break the bank?  It looks like a computer interface is sounding like a really good idea as well.

(Browsing around on remotecentral.com is making my head hurt... the amount of information is staggering!)

Many thanks!

[ctviggen]

There may be discrete codes that are not on the original remote (like direct input codes).  You have to find them and program them in.

I'm in the process of researching this now...something so simple, yet so hard.

This is totally true.  On my new TV, the way to change to a different input by the TV's remote control is a pain.  However, I found direct input codes from another TV of the same brand that work fine with my Pronto remote.  Another thing I've done is programmed my Pronto with discrete codes and then trained a learning remote with those codes.  This way, I could set up a macro for someone else's remote control.

[ctviggen]

By the way, I really like Pronto remotes, but they take too long to program. 

[MaxCast]

A new inexpensive receiver is an option this year to help simplify the problem only if the universal remote isn't too expensive.

What price range are you looking at.  The extra money spent on a remote my bump you up to a better receiver with a better remote.
Computer programing on a remote puts you up to the $200+ range doesn't it?
Remote Central has a lot of info that's for sure.  The few threads I read seem to indicate some unhappy Harmony owners.
I had an old samsung 27" tv that I had stored on my mx-500.  I bought a new 61" led dlp....the codes are the same    these tvs have to be 10-15 years apart.

[brj]

I was assuming that RF capability would put me in the $200 price range already, and I can handle that.  I'll give up computer control for price if needed, as I don't want to get too crazy with this... remotes are this caliber are unlikely to be fully appreciated by the intended audience, so I need some $$ left over to buy something they might consider more interesting!

If I were to get a receiver it would most likely be the Panasonic SA-XR57, but it sounds like any remote I'm looking at will work with the existing Mitsubishi M-R6030 receiver.  (I can't verify this, but it sounds likely.)

Bob, thanks for the tip on Prontos being a pain to program!

Thanks for the help, everyone!

[brj]

Ok, some additional clarification based on more reading...

I'm looking for an "activity oriented" remote, one that combines all needed commands to all required components to complete a given activity such as "watching TV", rather than a "device oriented" remote that essentially combines multiple device remotes into a single package.

I was assuming this design philosophy inherently, but it may not have been clear.  Thanks!

[ted_b]

Two words:  Philips Pronto.

http://www.pronto.philips.com/

I've had the TSU6000 for years, and just upgraded to the new TSU9400.  PM me if you want to buy my TSU6000.  I still have all the stuff and remotecentral has gobs of prebuilt ccf's (layouts, codes and screen navigation program). 

[satfrat]

If you're looking at a consumer-friendly remote, the MX-500 is hard to beat. That's what I'm using (came standard with my Sunfire TG4 Processor) and it's the best remote I've ever owned. If I were to buy one tho I'd get the MX-700 for the computer lookup and ageless protection. If I had a lot of money to spend, i'd definitely go Pronto!

Cheers,
Robin

[brj]

Thanks, guys!

I've got to say that, reading through remotecentral.com, it certainly appears that none of the big remote manufacturers seem to have a great reputation for product reliability and customer support - and I say that even accounting for the greater tendency of people to post only if they have a problem.

Ted, thank you for the offer!  My first instinct is that a touchscreen LCD would not be as suitable for older parents that aren't really looking for excuses to learn new technologies, but I'll do some more reading and get back to you.  (I live 1000 miles from them, so remote "tech support" can be challenging.)

The Home Theater Master MX-650 was the unit I was reading about most recently, as it appears to be an updated MX-500 with RF capability.  It gives up the computer control, but hopefully I only have to program the unit once.  Back to the tomes...

[ctviggen]

Pronto remotes are great for most activity centric programming.  For instance, I just hit a button that says "watch TV" and the remote does the rest.  The problem is that they're incredibly time consuming to program.  I'm trying to program my pronto for the upstairs system, and it would take several 8 hour days to do so.  Consequently, I have the Squeezebox and TV programmed in, but not the DVD or the ability to switch between these.  And I still haven't debugged everything.  And I've been reprogramming this for months. Also, you have to spend quite a bit of time finding icons and the like.  For instance, I'd like an icon of a Squeezebox, but haven't been able to find one.  One last detriment is that there's no state information.  So, if I want the ability to listen to the TV using the TV's speakers and to listen to the TV using the preamp and amp and two channel speakers (or five channel), I have to program two completely independent sets of pages to do so.  Having said that, I'm thinking of buying a newer Pronto.  This is one of the cheapest places to get a Pronto:

http://www.hideflifestyle.com/remote-controls-c-25.html?filter_id=3&sort=20a

It should also be noted that I don't think Philips is going to make the pronto any more.

[brj]

Pronto remotes are great for most activity centric programming.  For instance, I just hit a button that says "watch TV" and the remote does the rest.  The problem is that they're incredibly time consuming to program.  I'm trying to program my pronto for the upstairs system, and it would take several 8 hour days to do so.

Well if that is a fairly universal experience for the Pronto, it no longer becomes an option for a gift to my parents - I simply won't have that much time while I home visiting.  Such a time commitment wouldn't bother me for my own system, if the gains are worth it, but that seems to be inviting far more remote "tech support" for the parents than I'd like to invite.

It should also be noted that I don't think Philips is going to make the pronto any more.

In favor of a new architecture?

Thanks!