[TheChairGuy]

To whit:

Bookshelf
Floorstander
Ported
Acoustic Suspension (sealed)
Transmission Line
Passive Radiator
Bi-wiring
Powered
Powered Subs
Efficient
Sensitivity
Planar
Open Baffle
Dynamic
Electrostatic
Horn
Ribbon
Bi-Pole
Di-Pole
Waveguide
Crossover
Crossover 'within delicate 2-3khz range'
Crossover-less
Impedance
Kevlar
Mylar
Aluminum
Titanium
Ceramic coated
Carbon Fibre / Woven Carbon Fibre
Polypropelene
Paper / Treated Paper
Vertical Dispersion
Horizontal Dispersion
Rear-Ported or Front
Finishes
$500 / $2000 / $10000+
Room Dimensions
Room Treatments

Oh, yes - I know I've missed a few, too 

I realize that whatever sounds best to me, yadda-yadda, is the right choice...but with so many choices at so many various price points it is difficult to make a choice that is a near certain upgrade.  Not the gambling sort with my finite funds - I like taking 'sure bets' whenever possible.  With the plethora of choices out there - you are almost surely going to make several backwards steps before you lurch forward with one that you eventually find.

I have taken a lot of time to study each of the other parts of the sonic chain - from recording to playback side - and I understand each well enough to advance my knowledge and better the re-creation of music significantly in my room over time.  But, I am still vexed  by the dreaded speaker issue.

I'm just venting a bit as I hadn't thought that any issue in this hobby has been insurmountable to understand...but in the case of speakers, it might just take a lifetime to understand 50% of the issue 

Cheers - John 

[Wind Chaser]

John,

What size is your room and what are your amps?  Did you get a chance to hear the OB-5's in SF?

John

[TheChairGuy]

John,

What size is your room and what are your amps?  Did you get a chance to hear the OB-5's in SF?

John

One other significant mention of attributes necessary....WAF! 

Nope, I didn't go to hear those OB-5's locally for that reason....not sure I want 4' tall entities in my room and I know the wifey, who is quite a piece of work in many ways, wouldn't either 

[Wind Chaser]

The interesting thing about the WAF is if you tell her how much you want to spend or how big they are is if you can actually get her to see and listen to them for herself, you might be surprised at the positive outcome.  It happened to me with Acoustat 2+2’s, which are like having the WTC Twin Towers in your living room.  While Michele isn't the least bit interested in audio, she does enjoy music, and I have come home on occasion only to find her sitting in "my" sweet spot spinning a disc.

You might have to wear her down to get her out and hear something you may ideally need approval for, but my experience has been even if you don't, as long as it really is good and it makes you happy, there's a good chance she will accept it and even be willing to offer her opinion as to how much better it sounds than the previous piece.  Heck, Michele never once made me take anything back nor did she even ask.

John

[2bigears]

   the world has gotten' too small with the old internet!!!! We all know too much for our own good ????

[Kevin Haskins]

Unfortunately you need to add a lot more to that list. 

Speakers are the last frontier.   The electromechanical & acoustic interface with the room is certainly the largest source of error and has the most profound effects on the playback system.    I'd say that its more complicated than just looking at the loudspeaker, you should consider the loudspeaker/room as one system.    After all... the room-loudspeaker dance is what you hear, not just the loudspeaker. 

[Wind Chaser]

Another question, would you consider the DIY route as in building a kit?  If so take a good look at RAW and GR Research.

Let's look at some of your list...

Bookshelf vs. Floor Standing  In my case a small footprint is what matters most due to room constraints.  A floor standing speaker with a footprint equal to a bookshelf sitting on stands is generally going to give you more at the bottom end.  Why spend money on stands which are easier to tip? (i.e. airborne cat landings and take offs)

Enclosed vs. OB  I'm very biased on this point as are all OB converts.  OB is as much a of a religion as is vinyl.  For lack of a better way of saying it, one can't accept the limitations of inferior technology once they have experience something better.

Emerald Physic's succinctly stated it like this... Since 1978, Emerald Physics has been investigating loudspeaker behavior and potential solutions to obstacles in conventional design ideology.  A decade later, the concept of the fully enclosed box was ABANDONED (Emphasis supplied.) in favor of free-air dipole technology. They go on to say… It became evident that a properly executed dipole design sounded far more natural and informative than any enclosed box approach. 

Electrostats?  Depending on your taste in music, Estats can be very nice. Generally speaking they are very refined and quick, but they grossly lack of dynamic range.  Try playing the Sheffield Lab Drum Record.  It wasn't long after that I parted way with my Estats.

Crossovers?  5 years ago I heard Ed Schilling's HornShoppe Horn.  The sound coming out of that tiny driver in that relatively small speaker blew my mind, especially the mids.  From that day forward I understood and became part of the crossover less single full range driver fanaticism.  It wasn't long ago that I was able to open my mind up to the understanding that all crossovers are not a compromise.  Danny at GR Research is a genius in this regard.  It's no wonder he's building crossovers for various manufactures.  He knows how to do it right.  The OB-5's with all their elaborate parts working in unison leave the Horn's in the dust.

John

[TheChairGuy]

  the world has gotten' too small with the old internet!!!! We all know too much for our own good ????

A-greed    And, in further agreement with the esteemable Kevin Haskins...speakers are the last frontier.

For those old enough to remember...wasn't it easier when 30 years ago you had about 15 brands of acoustic suspension speaker brands to choose from at low prices...and a few esoteric ones at higher prices that were either planar, transmission line or other 'odd' make-up?  I don't pine for the 'good old days', but I'm close to doing so here 

[ecramer]

You have to plan ahead aa when i placed the my tanzinites on stands i built the bases of the stands the same size as the selah audio rc5's (now rc5g) i am going to build so significant other has gotten used to the idea of speakers that take up fair chunk of floor space

[John151]

Don't forget to add head phones to your list. 

[TheChairGuy]

The DIY thing isn't something of interest...I'm more inclined to let someone who has invested far more time, and has far more inclination than I do, in construction and electrical matters.  I only feel comfortable tweeking what's already there insofar as my understand for it exists.

I live my life simply on the basis that I do what is comfortable for me...most of the times I've gone against my internal rhythms on that issue have been uncomfortable for me.  Perhaps odd for a self-described entrepreneur to say, but 'tis true 

The DIY route is not at all entirely cheap, either.  The other day I saw these great looking curved cabinets at Parts Express for over $90 each....http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=302-723

As I want to investigate the single driver/crossoverless issue further (my room is so filled with windows, particularly two giant ones in back of the left side speaker - that I want less diffuse radiation patterns a la open baffle/planar, not more in my room I'm pretty sure), that I've sought out models that would fit the bill.

Then, I found this on sale for $189.00 last week (the same price as two DIY curved cabinets at PE) on A'gon: http://www.angelfire.com/biz/bizzyb/AURALECSTASY.html

Most of the work is already done for me (at Chinese labor rates  ) with these speakers.  If it truly stinks, I always have two good cabinets to play with later.  I own the Quad 11L that has woven kevlar drivers and I rather like it (not sure how much kevlar drivers have a hand in it, of course  )...and these TAD's, cross-overless never dipping below 8 ohms, are very tube friendly.

Beats me if they're gonna' work, but I'm only out $189 if it's a completely failed experiment.  I already have 18" stands bought long ago for another aborted speaker effort 

Mind you, I really like my current speaker - and have liked other speakers that have been here - but with my particular room situation (windows and a lot of them - very pretty to look thru and lots of sun - but lousy for high quality audio re-production) the diffuse tweeter radiation pattern is definitely a no-no 

john151 - I've got headphones.  Grado SR-60's re-wired (cryo'ed, silver) by Revelation Audio Labs.  I don't hear too many differences in headphones that I want to pursue anything else.  It's just not that important to me...speakers are, however.  Just my personal taste, that's all.

Ahhhhhh....another day...and another speaker... John 

[ecramer]

Grado sr-60 are great rock-N-roll headphones but if you should really try a pair of Beyerdynamic DT 880 headphones or Beyerdynamic DT 990 to get a much better sound

[TheChairGuy]

Grado sr-60 are great rock-N-roll headphones but if you should really try a pair of Beyerdynamic DT 880 headphones or Beyerdynamic DT 990 to get a much better sound

I also tweeked the earcups with constrained layer damping...between that and the Revelation Audio Labs re-wire the SR-60 is quite a bit more refined little headphone now.  I can also travel with them as they are small and easy to drive....I don't, however, as I have a nifty pair of Westone UC2's to use on planes, or as my earphone with SKYPE (I use a small plastic clip-on microphone) etc.

See - I'm not at all anti-change or anti-technology...but I'm very much pro-good decision 

Those kinda' decisions are a cinch for me - speakers are vexing to me 

Thx, John

[JLM]

Speakers have the toughest job in the playback chain.  Not only do they have to work with the unknowns of amps and rooms, they are a transducer (something that changes energy from one form into another). 

It'd help if you could fully define your room and domestic speaker limitations for us.

It'd also help to define the musical genres you're most interested in and what aspects of sound reproduction you primarily seek.

There is no perfect speaker.  But you can get close for a given set of priorities and limitations.

[Imperial]

I can imagine a two way or something moderately sized floorstander could be nice, if one wants to go for the long run.
I gather you want a speaker to have for some time, if you decide to buy.

I always liked the Proac Response 2.5 ,the Doxa 8.1 Revelator, The Patos Symphonic III AMT. These are all fullrange speakers not
needing a lot of power with a very good sound. The Doxa being a marvel of a speaker (I believe it has been out of production for some 7-8 years  )

Imperial

[TheChairGuy]

Imperial
Except for the Dali's...I think the other two aren't available in the 3rd world country now called the USA    But, thanks 

JLM / Jeff
The room is approximately 12 x 15 x 8-12' (ceilings vaulted).  System and speakers have to stay on the short wall.  Left speaker, unfortunately, situated in front of two large windows (great views - lousy acoustics  )  An armoire has all of my office gear...and that juts out from the same left side wall 2+'.  I have a thick berber rug (wonderfully aided acoustics!) and a couple throw rugs.  Two more windows AND a windowed door on the rear wall and abutted left corner.

Great views and lousy acoustics - what's an audiophile to do? I'm pretty sure a speaker that is aimed right at me will be better than what I currently have....with the Linaeum figure-8 tweeter causing reflections all over the room now 

I'm a renter - so nothing permanent will do.

Yeah, it's all hard to grasp without a diagram I realize 

[JLM]

OK, so what's the musical genres you're most interested in and what aspects of sound reproduction do you primarily seek?

We know you're a vinyl guy, but what are the current electronics like?  I write "current" because you really should have picked speakers first.

BTW, what is it that you don't like about your current speakers?


You and I are at so much the opposite ends of the audio spectrum.     (I'm solid state, digital, and buying in this dedicated basement man cave.)

[TheChairGuy]

JLM

I listen to the gamut...but given the ham-fistedness of most engineers mixing 'popular' stuff, I can't get a sense of realism from any of them.  However, stuff from Mannheim Steamroller, Blue Man Group, Alan Parsons Project, Pink Floyd can often be pretty sensational for non-jazz or classical works.

There used to be plenty of Sting thru Pearl Jam in rotation...but the clamped off dynamics just really bug me now as my system has taken on better resolution over the years.

Jazz and classical, mostly on vinyl, is primarily what I listen to.  It's the only music I listen to that is unamplified primarily and I can get a sense of accuracy of the recording...tone, timbre of instruments, room ambience and surroundings, player input, etc. I can only 'hear' with these kind of unamplified performances.  Piano, Keith Jarret thru George Winston thru Vladimir Horowitz thru Rob Apostle (a plug for my buddy that attended Julliard on scholarship for piano) is on heavy rotation usually.

I rarely listen critically as music is on all day long during work (softly)....my ear is only 5' from the left sepaker so I hear everything wrong quite quickly in my system.

I found tube amps and ss preamp works best.  Vinyl seems best amplified by quiet solid state and the tube amps brings a bloom to the music, real or not, that's appreciated by these ears    A Mitsubishi (dual mono) preamp/tuner feeds either antique Bell 10watt mono integrateds or Dukane 50 watt mono amps.  A Gallo TR-1 subwoofer (100 watt Class AB amp, 10" DVC poly woofer, cylindrical cabinet) fills in the bottom end (of which there isn't that many as it turns out - the Linaeums play admirably low)

I love my modded Linaeums, frankly...but the top mounted, di-pole tweeter is not doing my any favors in my less-than-stellar room (the left side, where the two giant windows are, is notably fuzzier and less succinct than the right side speaker - in front of a flat wall).

The speakers were actually picked first and the other components surrounded it over time based it's virtues...but I am slowly recognizing it's diffuse radiation pattern is not a wonderful thing to have in my room 

Thx, John

[Russell Dawkins]

O.K.
It sounds like what you actually need would have a waveguide for the tweeter.
That points to a certain popular manufacturer on this site. Dipole bass and waveguide top points to another $3000 speaker recently popular here, but requiring more amplification than you've got and perhaps not distaff-friendly.

I don't know why you would be distracted by that Chinese made $189 2 way you linked to when you have the Quads which, while still made in China are pretty well bound to be better and are the same general type, anyway.

I took it you wanted better, not just different - unless, that is, you just like a change for its own sake now and then.

How are those Dukanes? Are you sure you couldn't get a more significant improvement from just getting a better sounding amp?
If you like tubes, how about an AVA modified Dyna Stereo 70?

[DaveC113]

Interesting... I sold my Mirage bipolar speakers (early 90's vintage) for smaller speakers because I was moving, and my space was going to be far too small for the bipolar aspect to be doing any good. After a lot of research I ended up with Omega XRS and a Trends T-amp. I also sold my ss preamp for a tube pre. SD cones act as a waveguide for mid-high frequencies, and they beam to a certain degree. The 4.5" speakers aren't that bad with beaming, but there is a lot more direct sound vs reflected compared to a typical dome tweeter. In my situation, a small space and nearfield listening, the XRS seemed to be my best bet. I have a wool rug over carpet, absorption on the cieling, and 2 bass traps. For bigger spaces, I'd go with a 4.5" bi/dipole, or an 8" driver. The only other way I'd go would be something like the Emerald Physics speaker, but honestly, dipole bass isn't my preference (no impact)... I'd need to integrate some sealed cabs for under ~50 Hz, which would require a 3 way setup on the active x-over and 6 amplifier channels. I think I'd only go this route for a large room.

Russel, a st70 is a candidate to replace the t-amp after I graduate, a sig 30 is the other...   

Dave