[EveningSky]

This is my first post.
I just orderd a set of Panorama speakers with a Titan subwoofer for a 18x24 ft space.
I am also considering a new amp system.
Do any forum readers have a recommendation for a preamp/amp (or all in one) of intermediate price range (or different price points) which would complement my new speakers. 
I listen to a variety of different types of music.
Thank you,
ES
PS: I wish all a good Thanksgiving. 

[elcaptain88]

Lots of good options - my vote goes to VanAlstine, they have a circle here so check them out.

[Photon46]

As an owner of Talismans (Panoramas with integrated powered subs) I think you're getting a pair of very neutral speakers that don't really require any particular compensatory parameters, other than adequate power. Any high quality gear will thrive and shine in the company of your new acquisitions. I use both an Aloia PST 11.01 solid state preamp and a Music Reference RM5III tubed preamp. They both sound great and their respective characters are clearly revealed. I'm using a PS Audio HCA-2 that was highly modified by Reference Audio Mods and it is a very synergistic companion to the Talismans. You can pick an HCA-2 up for around $750 and have Reference Audio Mods or Cullen Circuits mod them for about the same amount. Killer amp for $1500. But any number of fine amps and preamps are going to work fine, don't sweat this too much. One thing I've found that some overlook is the unbelievable benefits of power conditioning and good power cables. My PS Audio P300 gave an absolutely incredible step up in sound quality and good power cords made another great improvement. Enjoy your new purchase.

[denjo]

Photon46
What power cords are you using?
Best Regards
Dennis

[Photon46]

I've not experimented too extensively with power cords on my amp. The first ones I tried were DIY versions of the VenHaus flavors. The Flavor 4 sounded the best. I didn't use expensive connectors, just a Schurter IEC and a Pass & Seymour male end. Then I tried a Cryo-MaxII Cable I made with a copper Furutech male end and a Furutech silver IEC end. This sounds great and costs less than $150, depending on length. Much better the the Flavor 4. Really nice gains in bass, ambience retrieval and "air." I'm now using a Virtual Dynamics Power 3. It's addition has increased the sonic holography factor noticeably. For about $300 new, it's quite a good performer. I'd like to try the next step up they sell, the Nite. I'm using a DIY VH Flavor 4 on the Aloia preamp. It's got a pretty trick separate inductive power supply and power cords haven't seemed to make as great a difference on that piece as they do on the power amp. The Music Reference has a hard wired cord, so no experimenting there. All my stuff goes through the PS Audio P300 except the amp.

[Toka]

Lots of good options - my vote goes to VanAlstine, they have a circle here so check them out.

Agreed. A can't-miss combo. 

[EveningSky]

Thank you all for your comments. 
I am new to this level of audio, so forgive the questions if they seem too simple.

What is a power cord?

I was looking at the Onkyo A-9555 "digital?" integrated amp.  I have read good comments about it, although it is new.  I do not even quite understand about precisely what the "digital" contribution actually is. 
Would I seriously short change the quality of the speakers/sound with such an amp (Amazon sells for $540). How much do I need to spend for the preamp/amp to get appropriate quality? 

Also, which model of VanAlstine have forum users had good results?

Thank you. 
ES

[oris98]

I didn't know ACI still selling the Panorma speakers..  I thought they are no longer available anymore..   I would have purchase a pair for my HT use if I knew they are still available ?    Do you know if the LFM still available ?   Thanks.

[EveningSky]

Dear Oris,
I don't know what a LMF is. 
I don't know if they have more Panoramas; I think they might. 
Suggest that you call the company to inquire.
Yours,
ES

[Photon46]

Eveningsky,

If you are a noobie to all this esoterica, it might be a good idea to get a book like Robert Harley's guide to High End Audio. It would help make more sense of all this stuff. A power cord is just a replacement for the stock cord that connects a component to the ac power plug in the wall. Onkyo makes decent intro level stuff as a rule. Don't worry about getting everything perfect on your first try at a system. You are getting good speakers, an excellent beginning. If you get the Onkyo receiver, you'll probably get upgrade fever in the future. But that's ok, lifes a journey, not a destination.

Oris98,

According to ACI's website, they still have a few Panoramas on deep discount closeouts in cherry and black oak finishes.

[Mike Dzurko]

Eveningsky:

Congratulations, you are going to love them!   


Oris98:

As others mentioned, there are still a very small # of Panorama cabinets, no hardwood side panels left. If you want a pair, give us a call or email ASAP before they're gone . . . LFMs have been gone for quite some time.

[EveningSky]

Thank you Photon. 
I am a noobie, but may know a bit more than you suspect (from my background with home music recording and editing).  Not an expert, but I am learning. 
How much do I need to spend, in your estimation to get something, where you would not perceive a more rapid urge to upgrade?  Or is there no real answer to that question with passionate HiFi audio'ers. 
I will consider the  book you recommended. 
Yours,
ES

[Photon46]

ES, you ask a question whose answer is so subjective. We all have different ideas about product value and disposable income variables influence that perspective. That said, I think your idea of buying an integrated amp is a good one. You save the cost of extra enclosures and interconnects you have with separate preamp/amp combos. There are a number of really good choices in the moderate ( for this crazy hobby ) price range. The Rogue Cronus is a new product that is a good value if you like the idea of tubes, about $1800 new. They've been on Audiogon used for about $1200.00 or so. Spearitsound.com (good, honest guys who've never given me bad advice or a bad deal) has several used and demo integrated amps worth considering. The Krell KAV300i is a nice product (1300-1600 used,) Cambridge 740a ($1000 demo,) Cambridge 840a ($1300 demo,) NAD C372 ($700 factory refurbished, $1000 new,) are all good choices they sell and all represent a real step up in audio quality vis-a-vis the Onkyo IMO. UpscaleAudio.com sells PrimaLuna gear, which is another well thought of, high value line with nice integrated amps. Not to sound like a shill, but dealing with someone like Spearitsound has advantages as one learns what sort of sound/products one likes.  When I was looking for a new cd player a few years ago, I ordered a Conrad Johnson player, didn't care for it at all, and they took it back no questions asked. They sent me another player that I liked, and that sealed the deal. If you don't have a local dealer to work with, I always make sure that when mail ordering, I can send stuff back. Audioadvisor.com also is good to work with in this respect. Good Luck, Happy listening!

[EveningSky]

Thank  you Photon.
That is very useful information. 
I will review those products and websites.
Thank you again.
Yours,
ES

[Lkdog]

Get some power. ACI speakers can be driven nicely by a lot of amps, but sound best in my opinion with as much good quality power as you can afford. I would get 175-200 watts of a high current quality amp.

Here are specs on the Panoramas:

Frequency response: 42-20kHz ±3db, 100-10kHz ±1.5db
Nominal impedance: 8 ohms, minimum impedance 4 ohms, low reactance
Sensitivity: 87db 1 watt/1 meter
Bass-loading: Fourth order vented system
Recommended RMS Power: 50 to 250 watts per channel
Tweeter: Hand-damped silk 1” dome with aperiodic rear chamber, cast face plate and ferro-fluid
Bass-mid: 5 ¼" cast-frame, rubber surround, double magnet, long-throw shielded
Woofer: 6 1/2" cast-frame, rubber surround, long throw, shielded
Cabinet: MDF Construction: 1” Front Panel, 3/4” Top, Bottom and Rear. Multiple density sides include
3/4” MDF with added 3/4” solid hardwood sides. Internally damped with 2” convoluted foam.
Inputs: Gold plated binding posts
Dimensions: 23 1/4" tall, 9 1/2" wide, 15 1/2" deep
Weight: 53 lbs each


Not little guys and you have a good sized room.

Buy used. You will save nearly half the price of new and if you buy from a reputable owner-it is just as good as new.
Get separates. You have to spend a lot of money on an integrated before you can equal the quality of the separate power supplies of a separate preamp and amp.

I would suggest buying a used Odyssey amp or monoblocks as far up the food chain as you can go.
There is a basically new dual monoblock right now on Audionervosa that is a decent asking price. These are $2200 new. Make him an offer. (I have no relationship with the seller). Odyssey will transfer the 20 year warranty. Fantastic amps and many ACI owners use them with their setups. You can also usually get a Stratos plus used for around $750-800 which would also do very well with the Panoramas.

http://www.audionervosa.com/index.php?topic=761.0

Add a decent used tube preamp and you will be in heaven.

You asked how much to spend on a preamp/amp setup?
You just bought some very nice speakers and a very nice sub. You can use a $150 integrated receiver if you want-but that would be like putting cheap tires on a Lexus. You will not hear what the speakers can really do.
Spend some money. I would say at least $750 up to $2000 used total.

Good luck.

[JLM]

ES,

I'd drive your new speakers with whatever, until:

1.  They break-in
2.  You have a chance to learn more
3.  You have a chance to audition

Try to join a local audio group, attend audiofests, and if all else fails read the equipment reviews.

Tubes versus solid state versus digital is an individual thing, but I'd budget roughly $2000 (retail) for an integrated amp (or separate pre/power amps).  I'd shoot for at least 100 watts per channel, more if you want to damage your hearing. 

Are you into remote control convenience or need multiple inputs?  If so, you can pretty much forget about tube integrated amps or at this price range separate pre-amps.

Used is a pretty good idea, but so are some of the tiny internet based cottage shops, like EVS.  Their EVS100S, with Ultimate Attenuators, ends up providing 2 channels of 100 watt high-end sound in a very pure dual mono configeration:  http://www.tweakaudio.com/EVS-2/Amp_page.html

[EveningSky]

Help, Help, Help. 

I asked a simple question?
I received several answers, good answers. 
I have decided to spend 1.5-3.0k $s on an amp/preamp or integrated amp. 
I surfed the net and looked at integrated and preamp/amp models from:

Odyssey Tempest/Stratus
Parasound A23/P3
NAD M3
Marantz PM15s
Denon PMA-2000
Dussun DS99
Van Alstine models

I think I would prefer new, as I have had too many bad experiences with "used in mint condition" items. 
I think that I would prefer SS over tubes, as I do not want to deal with tubes. 
I would prefer integrated (monoblocks), but am open separates. 

Why are the professional and user reviews all over the spectrum of good to not so good? 
This is so confusing! 
This is worse than listening to a political debate! 
At a certain price/quality point, I could understand subjective opinions, yet with this equipment it appears that opinions are all over the spectrum beginning at a relatively low price/quality point. 

I wish I could comparatively listen to the different amps, but I cannot. 
I wish I could try them out with my speakers, but I cannot. 
Can someone give me some simple and useful guidance to help me make a good purchase decision (again)? 

On the other hand, it is wonderful that there is so much choice among many apparently excellent units (me thinks). 

Yours,
ES

[bhobba]

Why are the professional and user reviews all over the spectrum of good to not so good?  This is so confusing!

Yes it is.  Trouble is a lot of this is very subjective.
 

I wish I could comparatively listen to the different amps, but I cannot. 
I wish I could try them out with my speakers, but I cannot. 
Can someone give me some simple and useful guidance to help me make a good purchase decision (again)?

Reputable companies will let you try them on your speakers, in your own home, eg Van Alstine will:
http://www.avahifi.com/
'We have complete confidence in the design, workmanship, and musical quality of our audio components. Thus, on new AVA-built electronics and on Biro Technology loudspeakers we offer you a 30-day satisfaction guarantee, subject only to these reasonable conditions: You must call for return authorization before shipping to us. Equipment (including all accessories and packing) must be received back by us in new condition within 30 days of our original shipping date to you.  Returns must be shipped to us with freight and customs brokerage fees prepaid. Shipping charges, customs fees, and customs brokerage fees will not be reimbursed or refunded as these costs cannot be recovered. Understandably, our satisfaction guarantee cannot cover do-it-yourself kits or equipment which you sent to us for rebuilding, as we cannot cost-effectively “un-rebuild” your equipment.'

My recommendation is to make do with the amp you already have then gradually audition, in you own system, a number of different amps until you get the one you want.  If you don't already own an amp think about something like the Winsome Labs mice for the grand sum of $319:
http://winsome-labs.com/

Relax, and enjoy your search for something better, by listening to different amps in your system.  Eventually you will hit on the one that suits you best.

Thanks
Bill

[Mike Dzurko]

Eveningsky:

Do you have something in house that you can hook the speakers up to get started?

[bhobba]

My recommendation is to make do with the amp you already have then gradually audition, in you own system, a number of different amps until you get the one you want.  If you don't already own an amp think about something like the Winsome Labs mice for the grand sum of $319:
http://winsome-labs.com/

Here is something even cheaper that someone posted in a similar thread:
http://www.emotiva.com/bpa1.html

At $129.00 I wish stuff this good and cheap was around when I was getting into audio.

Thanks
Bill