[jzontek]

This post might be a little long, so I apologize in advance, but I want to try to define what I am looking for and, for that matter, what I am not. If you have experience in comparing two or more of the preamps below (or others) I would appreciate hearing your advice or opinions. The price point I am sensitive to is around $800 or below.

I am looking for a preamp to put in front of my new (to me) SS amp. The preamps I am considering are:
- Conrad Johnson PV10
- Mapletree Line 2A SE
- Dared SL2000A
- Ming DA MC 7R

I have decided to change parts of my system; I recently decided to replace my Jolida 502B integrated tube amp. While I love the sound of the Jolida from the mid-bass upwards, I was unsatisfied with lack of definition in the low end during loud passages (orchestral, big band, rock, whatever).

I purchased an Acurus A250 and L10 solid state amp and preamp. I also have on hand an old Acoustat PNP preamp. The Acurus/Acurus combination proved to be too edgy, harsh and sibilant in the treble range, especially brass and cymbals—very tiring. Acoustat/Acurus combination was more pleasant, but the old pre has some audible noise in one channel. Both combinations provided much better control in the bass, but neither is going to find a home in my system.

What I am looking for:
I am a serious amateur musician (trombonist) and am a very critical listener. I want to not only hear the orchestra or band, I also want to hear each instrument, and hopefully each musician (how they play). Detail and accuracy are critical, but not at the expense of musicality. I am looking at tube preamps for a few reasons:
1) I loved musicality of my Jolida
2) A friend has a CJ PV10 in front of his Acurus amps and his system has a jaw dropping sound.

My hope is that a tube preamp will tame the harsh upper register, but I do not want to compromise the overall detail and the lower end punch and accuracy that the Acurus A250 is capable of delivering.

(The rest of my system: CD transport is a Sony X303ES; DAC is a LiTe AH (modified) from Pacific Valve; amp is Acurus A250; speakers are Von Schweikert VR-2)

Thank you for your insights,
John

[topround]

John,
I have the Mapletree Ultra 4se.
Many preamps have come and gone but the Mapletree will always stay. All of the other preamps were in the 2 to 3 k price range. This little tube pre loves to sing.
It is a very musical preamp that intergrates well with many other types of amps. I have had it in front of SS, digital and tubes. It always worked great. This little preamp is the biggest bargain in audio today.

I replaced the stock tubes with Sylvania 6sn7's , which was a massive improvement. It is a very simple circuit, so you will easily hear the difference in tubes as well as in different equipment.

It has a delicious weight to the music that is addictive, mine was sent to Mapltree for some work and I am using a Modwright now,which is a great preamp but I really miss the Mapletree and can't weight for it to get back. The synergy in my system depends on that pre. In fact I listen less without the preamp here.
A tube pre is a smart choice to be in front of SS or digital. The mapletree really made the Channel islands and Nuforce monoblocks shine, taking away high end grit and adding a romantic warmth to the sound.
In a word the sound is romantic. Are there better pre's available, sure, but you would have to spend 3 to 5 k to get the absolute accuracy you demand with the romance of tubes.
My system has plenty of detail and accuracy available, but no other piece in the chain gives me the romance of music like the mapltree. equipment comes and goes, but that little pre stays.
mike

[denjo]

Mike
I have always wanted to own a Mapletree Line 2A preamp but when I contacted Dr Lloyd he advised that my Sanders ESL300 amplifier was not a good match. I am going to ask Dr Lloyd again. Meanwhile, do you experience any hum from the preamp or is it dead quiet? Also, Dr Lloyd's preamps are without transformers. Does anyone know what the major difference lies between transformer and transformer-less preamps?

Thanks!

Best Regards
Dennis

[Berndt]

Let me add,  if the mapletree is not your cup of tea you can sell it for close to what you paid for it.
One of the few audio items that represents its self quite well on the used market.

[twitch54]

John, Good day, I have to throw another possibility at you..... Audio Research SP-9 mkII or if your budget would allow, the mkIII, probably $3-400 more than a mkII.

Prior to my owning a SP-9 mkII I owned a CJ PV-10A, both were and IMO are still great pieces. My resoning for the switch to ARC, I believe it to be more tonally neutral than the CJ. I have been a ARC ever since, presently using the LS-26.

I have seen the SP-9 mkII's selling for $7-850 on the "Gon", with mkIII's around $11-1300. The main difference being wiring, cap and resistor upgrading.

It still comes down to your ears and if you heard 'sonic nirvana' coming from a PV-10, then I say....Go For It  !!

[flintstone]

At around $800 used you may want to also give the Monarchy M24 some thought...it's a tube preamp, and a  tube DAC. You can use it as a preamp only, a DAC only...or both.


It has the sound you stated you are looking for... one of the best buys in audio, IMHO.


Dave

[tanchiro58]

Jzontek,

Promitheus Apollo preamp with C-core output transformers should be added to your list or a TVC passive preamp which is a good deal too. Check it out this website:

http://www.promitheusaudio.com/apollo.htm



Tan

[tvyankee]

hey

you want a tube pre that just kicks ass and never comes up for sale. buy this one.

i have heard my fair share of tube pre's and i can tell you that this one is really very good.


http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatube&1200952294

btw,  i have nothing at all to do with this post for the pre.

[flintstone]

hey

you want a tube pre that just kicks ass and never comes up for sale. buy this one.

i have heard my fair share of tube pre's and i can tell you that this one is really very good.


http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatube&1200952294

btw,  i have nothing at all to do with this post for the pre.

Yes, the Mantissa is a good preamp, I've owned one for a few years now (although, not using mine right now). That price is on the high side IMO (unless it has the Silver Signature upgrade).

$1,200-$1,500 is more normal from what I've saw in the past. I bought mine for $650 


Dave

[lazydays]

about six or seven years ago I picked up a CJ PV10AL for $500 that was just back from a rebuild at the factory. I still use it in my bedroom system, and have always liked it. It's not as fast as some preamps, and maybe not as much presence as well. But in it's invoirment it's just fine. I like it better than the Quicksilver line stage I have, as well as an ASL preamp too. I also use an Odyssey Candella which flatly kills the other three easilly. I've thought about getting a PV14 in the past but never went thru with it (this one has to have a tape loop in it). If you don't need a tape loop and can get along with four inputs the Candella is a killer (about $1300), but if you gotta have five or six inputs and a tape loop I think I'd be shopping for a nice used PV14AL.
gary

[jzontek]

I do appreciate the time and energy that people have put in to respond to my post--thank you.

There have been helpful and informative responses regarding my initial list of preamps that I am considering, as well as several additional suggestions, all of which have caused me to do some further research into each item--this is great!

There are two considerations in my initial post that I would like to clarify, they are:
1) Please provide some comparison information, if possible, between the suggestions and and one or more of the listed preamps (preferably the PV10, as that is the only one I have heard personally).
2) Suggestions that fall close to my price range would especially be appreciated.

I know that most responses have done this, others, suggesting components that are way out of my target price ceiling--while enticing--don't really help me in my quest for my new preamp.

I especially appreciate the suggestions regarding the following:
1) The Audio Research SP9 MkII--It raises a question for me because it is a hybrid. That question is, does provide the kind of reduction of harsh edgy highs that seems to be prevalent in SS components while still providing the well-controlled and detailed bass?
2) The Monarchy M24--Two questions come to mind. 1) can a combination tubed DAC & preamp really provide the performance at this price point? 2) Is this the same thing as listed here http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?dgtlconv&1200789221 - this ad refers to it as an NM24?
3) The Candela sounds very interesting, but the Odyssey Audio website doesn't list it, and its pricing is unclear.

The Mapletree Line 2A is still under consideration, but the post about the Ultra 4 SE begs the question as to whether the two are comparable, or are they completely different?

Sorry about adding even more questions, but as my interest is piqued, I become more curious.

Thanks for your posts,

John

[rajacat]

The Mapletree line 2a is almost the line 4se without the phono stage. Go to the Mapletree websight for details. http://hollowstate.netfirms.com/

[twitch54]

The Audio Research SP9 MkII--It raises a question for me because it is a hybrid. That question is, does provide the kind of reduction of harsh edgy highs that seems to be prevalent in SS components while still providing the well-controlled and detailed bass?

Your question actually sounds as if is more directed towards the power amp side as opposed to the pre-amp ! LOL !! At the time I had my SP-9 mkII it was running into a Threshold Stasis S-500 driving a pair of Maggie 3.6's. None of the negative signs you mentioned were present with this combination. Again mine was modded by Steve Huntley (caps, wiring and resistors, power supply ??, hell it's been too long I forget !), I think I had Amprex 6922's in it when my son became the new owner.

As I said in my first post if you can luck into a mkIII version you would be getting the latest variant with upgraded caps and wiring as well.

Again compared to the PV-10 that I had prior, the SP-9 is more tonally neutral, IMO

[lazydays]

I do appreciate the time and energy that people have put in to respond to my post--thank you.

There have been helpful and informative responses regarding my initial list of preamps that I am considering, as well as several additional suggestions, all of which have caused me to do some further research into each item--this is great!

There are two considerations in my initial post that I would like to clarify, they are:
1) Please provide some comparison information, if possible, between the suggestions and and one or more of the listed preamps (preferably the PV10, as that is the only one I have heard personally).
2) Suggestions that fall close to my price range would especially be appreciated.

I know that most responses have done this, others, suggesting components that are way out of my target price ceiling--while enticing--don't really help me in my quest for my new preamp.

I especially appreciate the suggestions regarding the following:
1) The Audio Research SP9 MkII--It raises a question for me because it is a hybrid. That question is, does provide the kind of reduction of harsh edgy highs that seems to be prevalent in SS components while still providing the well-controlled and detailed bass?
2) The Monarchy M24--Two questions come to mind. 1) can a combination tubed DAC & preamp really provide the performance at this price point? 2) Is this the same thing as listed here http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?dgtlconv&1200789221 - this ad refers to it as an NM24?
3) The Candela sounds very interesting, but the Odyssey Audio website doesn't list it, and its pricing is unclear.

The Mapletree Line 2A is still under consideration, but the post about the Ultra 4 SE begs the question as to whether the two are comparable, or are they completely different?

Sorry about adding even more questions, but as my interest is piqued, I become more curious.

Thanks for your posts,

John

The Candella runs about $1300 with remote. Mine dosn't have the remote, and see little need for it. Suggest you give Klaus a call (317) 299-5578 after five in the evening.
gary