Back to basics....an audio system needs a strong foundation

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #20 on:** 12 Nov 2007, 06:27 am »

Quote from: DaveC113 on 12 Nov 2007, 03:46 am

I think it would be really interesting if you tried these out on these for comparison (but still on top of the maple blocks):

http://www.auralex.com/sound_isolation_mopad/sound_isolation_mopad.asp

I wonder if the results of coupling/decoupling depend on the floor...

I saw these somewhere in my readings...but, they're only for monitors (bookshelves in audio-phool parlance

)

I once tried 4 very firm (flat) dots from Herbie's made expressly for speakers...it made the set-up sound worse right from the first note. I think he called them Big Black Flat Dots (catchy, eh?) or something

The speakers was able to rock ever so gently and it was really detrimental to sound. Firmly grounding them into, well, FIRM GROUND in the form of a thick maple block is the answer for me. The set-up I now have may not be the world's best...but it's leagues better than anything else I tried.

It actually is a notably large improvement in sonics

John

kyrill · « **Reply #21 on:** 12 Nov 2007, 05:29 pm »

wonderful John

and room for experimenting
for instance the more wood the less glue, so a block of least number of little blocks vs. standard block
replace cones with hard wooden ones vs copper/rhodium cones

o i would pass finding out which tropical wood of a far away rare forest sounds best

H what a wonderful hobby

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #22 on:** 12 Nov 2007, 06:02 pm »

Quote from: kyrill on 12 Nov 2007, 05:29 pm

wonderful John

and room for experimenting
for instance the more wood the less glue, so a block of least number of little blocks vs. standard block
replace cones with hard wooden ones vs copper/rhodium cones

o i would pass finding out which tropical wood of a far away rare forest sounds best
H what a wonderful hobby

I'll turn my attention to other experiments I think....the change to solid maple or exotic cones or pointy things are apt to raise the budget considerably. I know I might eek out a bit more performance somehow, but I'm learning to deal with the biggest obstacles first now in my system.

If I can integrate a subwoofer (the last time I tried it was disastrous...but the room is better treated now and the subwoofer I tried it with was to, too large for my 12 x 15' room) , this will relieve my Linaems of low frequency duties - this should clean things up further. It's those lowest notes that cause 'rumble' (noise/resonance creating by vibrating speaker panels) - eliminating them and handing them over to a dedicated 34 lb Gallo cylinder should pay off further dividends greater than any change in maple or cone materials or construction.

Should being the operative term

John

DaveC113 · « **Reply #23 on:** 21 Nov 2007, 08:08 pm »

John, thanks for sharing.. it led me to look for maple blocks on ebay, and there is a good selection of air dried maple there. I bought a nice board for $30 to make some stands out of.

One isue I have is that my room is carpet over concrete, so I'm not sure if I want to buy spikes for the maple blocks as coupling to concrete might not be a great idea... Does anyone have any experience with this?

This board:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=150183118950&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=005

...would have been ideal, but its probably going to sell for a lot of $$$. Maybe perfect for someone here who has the right sized speakers.

Dave

jt1stcav · « **Reply #24 on:** 22 Nov 2007, 01:04 am »

I was always under the assumption that coupling to a concrete slab was a good thing (as my Klipsch RB-75s are sitting on top of 28" spiked Atlantis stands). I dunno...maybe a maple butcher block with brass cones directly between the monitor's bottom and the stand's top plate would benefit my system...hmmm.

John, nice setup! I wonder how much of a sonic impact the new wiring alone, along with coating the cabinet's inside walls, adding lead shot, acoustic fill, and the new woofers contribute to what you're hearing now before the addition of the maple platforms...

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #25 on:** 22 Nov 2007, 02:46 am »

Dave - very nice, man

I saved that guy in my ebay favorite sellers - he's worth checking into for boards - great looking stuff (cheeeeeeeep!)

jt1stcav - I did each 'mod' separately so I was able to gleen which ones were beneficial and which weren't for me.

Re-wiring > near zero betterment (maybe a bit, but I was straining to hear the change. Then again it was just 18ga OFC, nuthin' fancy)

Plast-i-Clay inside walls > very sizable; perhaps the most beneficial (the walls were very, very bad 1/2" particleboard, so no wonder

) An inert cabinet seems more important then average parts (as the drivers and crossovers were originally very average)

Lead shot at the bottom > reasonably good betterment...tho I'd expect only minor betterment after the large increase in focus and resolution after Plast-i-Clay'ing the walls

Acousta-stuf > major betterment in improving the midrange. Too much and the bass was overdamped however...took some time to get the balance right.

New GR Research woofers > A little more extension, a little better resolution. I had clayed the cheap stamped baskets of the cheap Peerless' that they came with originally, and added tiny clay dots on the cone inner and outer and this helped critically damped things well beforehand. The cheap Peerless was fine with these upgrades...the GR Research swap-ins (no crossover change at all) benefited it a little - especially in bass extension.

Tekna-Sonic Vibration dampers > I put these one and thought they were a crock of shit for $100.00. I left 'em there for over a year figuring that they didn't make it any worse. One day I pulled them off...and began wondering what was wrong with my system. Put them back on and all is right again. They do seem to change vibration into heat as they claim. Small, but beneficial.

Maple blocks and points (done together) > Worthwhile, about on par with the woofer swap-out. For $125 total, I'm pleased with the effect - especially as these can be used with other audio adventures of the future.

Ciao, John

Wayner · « **Reply #26 on:** 22 Nov 2007, 10:08 am »

JOHN TCG,

That butcher block (uncut) would be almost a perfect size for a turntable base. Have you thought about that?

Wayner

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #27 on:** 22 Nov 2007, 03:07 pm »

Wayner - u mean as a DIY effort? I have a VPI HW-19 Mk. III, the Rega 250 arm is coming back re-wired Incognito style now and the motor runs fine. Tho I could probably drill out the hole for the bearing well straight and true...I don't have capability to drill out the large and deep (3.5") shape the Rega mounting hole would need. Electrical and woodworking just ain't my special-ality

Make a nice sub-platform, tho, as you know....http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=42423.0

The (birch) cutting boards at IKEA would likely be better and easier as they are only 1.5" thick (easier to cut thru) and then you can stack several layers on top of one another for further isolation. Not that I've thought about it of course.....hehehe

John

Wayner · « **Reply #28 on:** 22 Nov 2007, 03:50 pm »

I wasn't thinking of making the block into a plinth...but that is a good idea! I just thought it would be a nice perch for the old table as an isolation device, like my slab of granite. The wood costs less and may be very effective in stopping vibrations through the chassis. Just a thought as I prepare my Lutefisk for the noon meal.

A note on Lutefisk. Every time I consume it, I'm thankful I don't have to eat it for another year. Don't let the juices get into the mashed potatoes.

Wayner

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #29 on:** 22 Nov 2007, 05:00 pm »

In all my years I have never heard of lutefisk...then I looked it up...it's one of those fish the Swedes and Norwegians love. It's a Minnesota thing, Wayner, I don't think too many others eat it in the US

Why not just move on to rather more ordinary Salmon or Trout?

You remember I was using a block of it under my table...you even posted in the topic a few months ago. It dang well works great there in that endeavor.

John

Wayner · « **Reply #30 on:** 22 Nov 2007, 10:55 pm »

Oh ya, I forgot....damn lutefisk has made me forget things.

Back to plinth idea.......

W

DaveC113 · « **Reply #31 on:** 11 Feb 2008, 12:31 am »

It took me a while, but...

The wood was from ebay, $25 plus $15 shipping. The feet are Harbor Freight 16oz plumb bobs, $4/ea. Grand total: $72 inc. shipping.

The ugly mat attached to the speakers is a felt pad. I will eventually experiment with making it smaller, until it is as small as possible (it covers the whole front baffle right now

). I might also try using the Enabl pattern on the cabinet edge as well.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #32 on:** 11 Feb 2008, 06:00 pm »

Curly maple, right? Niiiiiiice...especially with the brass accents.

How's the sound - improved for ya'?

What did you buy at Harbor Freight...what's a Plumb Bob

Regards, John

woodsyi · « **Reply #33 on:** 11 Feb 2008, 06:32 pm »

Quote from: TheChairGuy on 11 Feb 2008, 06:00 pm

Curly maple, right? Niiiiiiice...especially with the brass accents.

How's the sound - improved for ya'?

What did you buy at Harbor Freight...what's a Plumb Bob

Regards, John

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plumb-bob

It's a string with weight. You use it to find the true vertical. You chalk the string and snap it against the wall to get the starting line for wall papering. If you play golf you do this with putter to see which way the green slopes absolutely.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #34 on:** 11 Feb 2008, 07:35 pm »

Cool woodsyi, thanks.

I used these with the chalked string when I installed carpets during summers of my high school years

Ciao, John

DaveC113 · « **Reply #35 on:** 11 Feb 2008, 07:47 pm »

Yes, the brass cones are the plumb bobs. Unfortunately HF is now sold out. I bought 12 of them... Thanks to an AC member who posted the link in another thread.

The wood is Maple, with curl, burl, and spalting. I used a Deft brush-on laquer finish, and laquered the plumb bobs too. The stands measure 14" x 9" x 2.25". I have another board of similar wood I'm going to use for an amp chassis, with figured walnut corners. I am going to re-saw the board into two thinner boards that will be just over an inch thick.

As far as sound, I have been listening for a while, and there is definately an improvement. The difference in bass was noticable immediately, it's tighter and cleaner. There's also a top-to-bottom improvement in tone and clarity as well. Previously, I had them on 3/4" thick Bamboo cutting boards, so I wasn't sure what to expect, but the thick maple is certainly an improvement. I also really like having them 1.5" higher up than they were.

Dave

bpape · « **Reply #36 on:** 11 Feb 2008, 07:49 pm »

I wanna know where you got 14x9x2.25 ANY kind of maple for $25

Bryan

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #37 on:** 11 Feb 2008, 08:00 pm »

Bryan,

Dave pointed it out earlier in the thread (that ran in November)....http://stores.ebay.com/antlers-express_W0QQssPageNameZstrkQ3amefsQ3amesstQQtZkm

This guy sells wood remnants cheap and our 'opportunistic' Dave

musta' snagged a deal for himself

You can get mighty nice bamboo 1 7/8' cutting boards at IKEA real cheap (fully finished). A couple/three/four stacked on top of one another are probably great stands for speakers (and turntables).

John

DaveC113 · « **Reply #38 on:** 11 Feb 2008, 08:07 pm »

Quote from: bpape on 11 Feb 2008, 07:49 pm

I wanna know where you got 14x9x2.25 ANY kind of maple for $25

Bryan

Dims of the board were actually 33 x 9.5 x 2.25, and I cut it into 14 x 9.5 chunks to make the stands. I figure I got the board for about 1/2 of what it was worth... maybe even a little better. It is an odd board though, with various figure types, random spalting and burl...

As far as where... edit: John beat me to it

Dave