What YOU paid VS. MSRP -- add it up!

SwedeSound · « **on:** 5 Nov 2007, 10:51 pm »

I was thinking about how much I paid for my hi-fi the other day, and I decided to calculate my total investment and compare it to the original MSRP. Granted, most of this is due to a single incredible find at a yard sale where I scooped up $2,500 speakers for $10. However, I have worked very hard to find decent deals on used gear and feel like I've done a decent job. When I tallied it all up, I have shelled out about $500 in gear and have equipment with an original MSRP totaling around $3,800. Not too shabby -- and somehow that kind of a bargain makes the music sound SO much sweeter.

I pasted a breakdown of my calculation below. Some stuff I got used. Some stuff I just shopped around and found a decent deal. I'd love to read what others paid vs. what they originally sold for... Understanding, of course, that it's not a representation of what a system is currently WORTH, but it's a fun little exercise for those of us on a budget.

     MSRP     I paid:
amp 300     199
cdp 600     115
speakers 2500 10
cable     135     5
intercons 120     50
stands     150     120
TOTAL     3805     499

BobM · « **Reply #1 on:** 6 Nov 2007, 12:43 pm »

Yeah, and if you do any DIY or mod's yourself then the numbers get even better.

What I paid:@$8000
(amp, pre, transport, DAC, TT, cartridge, arm, phono, speakers)

DIY mods & parts cost: @$1800
(caps, resistors, cable, tubes, power conditioner, racks)

Original MSRP plus retail mods cost and/or retail replacement value for similar quality: @$20,000

Basically half the cost if I wasn't able to find a good deal in the used market, read schematics, wield a soldering iron and handle a bench saw and woodworking tools.

Enjoy,
Bob

SwedeSound · « **Reply #2 on:** 6 Nov 2007, 01:39 pm »

Bob,

I LOVE it. That's fantastic. I wonder if the higher up the food chain you go in terms of quality and expense, the better deal you get? I don't know. I'm curious what others learn. And great point about the DIY stuff. That has me intrigued. Who else has some fun numbers to crunch?

-Jason

Dan Driscoll · « **Reply #3 on:** 6 Nov 2007, 04:05 pm »

This is what's currently in my system.

Component MSRP Paid
Power amp $2000 $1100
Pre-Amp $1000 $450
DVDP $500 $350
Main Spkrs $1750 $400
Surrounds $700 $550
Center $550 $300
SB3 $300 $280
Tube DAC $760 $400

JoshK · « **Reply #4 on:** 6 Nov 2007, 04:39 pm »

I think to be fair you have to include all the gear you have ever purchased and re-sold to get to where you were. Add in all the losses on reselling the wares.

For me, DIY is still quite expensive when you consider all the parts I've purchased to use "sometime", all the tools and measurement gear and the stuff for projects that I haven't gotten to yet.

It adds up, as my wife likes to tell me when looking at the cc bill.

SwedeSound · « **Reply #5 on:** 6 Nov 2007, 04:45 pm »

That's certainly one way to look at it... Gamblers are notorious for only reporting their wins and keeping their losses quiet. I was just looking to see what kind of bargains people have found and whether it adds up to a system that makes them smile just a bit wider given the prices they paid.

DaveC113 · « **Reply #6 on:** 6 Nov 2007, 05:04 pm »

I payed $1850, retail is $4680. Its better than most systems I've heard, and better than 95% of what I heard at RMAF. Money seems to have no relation whatsoever to sound quality.

I just made made money selling my old amp and preamp compared to what I payed for them, and my new ones are even less expensive in total... The only new piece I ever bought at retail is a Trends T-amp for $150.

Dave

BobM · « **Reply #7 on:** 6 Nov 2007, 05:22 pm »

Quote from: JoshK on 6 Nov 2007, 04:39 pm

I think to be fair you have to include all the gear you have ever purchased and re-sold to get to where you were. Add in all the losses on reselling the wares.

Josh - that's the risk manager/quant in you talking.

I guess this would be very important to add in if you roll equipment a lot. I tend to find something I like, tweak it to my ear, and then keep it around forever. If I look at my losses and throw away's I would have to say I've probably not accounted for somewhere about $1000-2000 in "the cost of doing business" over the last 10 years in this hobby.

That's certainly not including the purchase of CD's and vinyl that I really didn't like or rarely if ever will listen to again. That number is MUCH higher.

Enjoy,
Bob

JoshK · « **Reply #8 on:** 6 Nov 2007, 05:32 pm »

Quote from: BobM on 6 Nov 2007, 05:22 pm

That's certainly not including the purchase of CD's and vinyl that I really didn't like or rarely if ever will listen to again. That number is MUCH higher.

Make a list and get some others to do the same and swap em. Lala has turned me into a swapper instead of a seller.

P.S. I am not a risk manager, although I have built many a risk model. I guess the quant moniker fits though.

doug s. · « **Reply #9 on:** 6 Nov 2007, 05:34 pm »

the retail cost of everything in my present system is ~$45k. what i paid for everything in my present system is ~$12.5k. only my vmps subwoofers were purchased new, & i got a decent discount on them - but still nothing like purchasing used. the only thing that was purchased new that's no longer in my system is my marchand crossover, recently replaced by a used deqx. i imagine i might lose a couple hundred dollars on it if i sell, but everything else i have bought & sold i have at least come out even, due to smart shopping whilst buying used.

i have enough gear not in my main system to set up several more - but the cost-vs-retail of this gear is similar. whenever i sell anything, i always at least break even. recent example - mitsubishi da-f20 tuners in good shape usually sell for $250-$300. i used to own one before, & it's so good, i always regretted selling it, w/o having it modded first. it was in the same league stock as my stock sansui tu9900 & accuphase t101 - the tiniest bit better than these two, actually. well, i stumbled across a da-f20 plus matching mitsu amp on ebay, with a buy it now price, or best offer. it had just been listed. so, i shot the seller a ridiculous (imo) offer, & to my surprise, the seller accepted it. so, i got both the amp and the tuner for $290 shipped. the amp is actually wery nice; it's been in my system for a coupla weeks. but, i was happy to let it go for $240, on ebay; it yust sold this past sunday. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=140173436392

sometimes, i buy something knowing up front that i will be re-selling it for a profit. several months ago, there was a foster blair refurb's scott tuna & mpx f/s on agon for $250 shipped. i used to own this exact same combo, but not worked on by foster - one of the premier scott techs in the country. as i knew the mpx's alone usually sell for that, or more, even if never serviced, i immediately emailed the seller accepting his asking price - hoping i'd been the first offer. well, i was the lucky buyer, i enjoyed these fine musical instruments for a while, & then i sold 'em on ebay for $410. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=140173453593

(ironically enuff, foster blair himself bought 'em!

he's gonna go thru 'em again, w/more modding this time, & sell 'em thru mapleshade, which adwertises modded/refurb'd scott gear on their website.)

this is how i usually buy gear - i decide what i want, & then wait for something to show up used, where i know i will be able to resell w/o taking a loss. every once in a while, i get lucky, & actually make a few dollars.

so, upgrading my system has been a small money-maker for me, actually. the only time i get burned is when i have bought something i do not wanna sell, so it is stored, or in a second system, etc...

doug s.

linkweewee · « **Reply #10 on:** 6 Nov 2007, 05:38 pm »

7100.00 retail for everything
3700.00 is what I paid-all bought off Agone.
I've got about $7000.00 worth of cds that are worth about 1200 bucks on the resale market so
it's all relative...

jaspal kallar · « **Reply #11 on:** 6 Nov 2007, 07:36 pm »

Quote from: DaveC113 on 6 Nov 2007, 05:04 pm

I payed $1850, retail is $4680. Its better than most systems I've heard, and better than 95% of what I heard at RMAF. Money seems to have no relation whatsoever to sound quality.

I just made made money selling my old amp and preamp compared to what I payed for them, and my new ones are even less expensive in total... The only new piece I ever bought at retail is a Trends T-amp for $150.

Dave

Curious to know what's yours system Dave?
jaspal.

zacster · « **Reply #12 on:** 6 Nov 2007, 08:58 pm »

I'm into the DIY thing myself.

Speakers - Proac 2.5 clone $4500 retail, $700 in parts/materials, including exotic veneer.
Amp - Dynaco ST-70 modded to DHT 6B4G PP $400 for the ST-70, plus about $300 for mods
Pre-amp - Aikido, $48 for the board, about 100 in parts (This is the biggest bargain in all of Audio IMO, and John Broskie gives all his knowledge away if you can understand his circuits and writing, I don't)
Turntable - $200 waaaay back in 1985 for a Planar 3 when they were still relatively new.
Phono pre - Pulled from a Creek amp, an OBH-8 board built into the Aikido. ???
CD - Modded Toshiba, $75, not the best part of my system though.
DVD-A - Panny S77. This cheap player sounds better with a DVD-A disk than any CD player.

How does this all sound? I wouldn't trade it for anything I heard at HE Expo in NYC last spring. There is something about going to a show like this and being relieved that you can go home and hear something that REALLY sounds good, and you built it ALL yourself. I doubt I could put together a system like this for under 15k, or for that matter for over 15k as I didn't like 99% of what I heard that day.

R_burke · « **Reply #13 on:** 6 Nov 2007, 09:31 pm »

I keep a "running" total, but don't keep track of what I have sold, broken, etc. Only the current stuff.

Paid - $8,085
MSRP - $12,320
Sell for - $6,050

The sell for is current Audiogon average pricing for my gear. I update the list every other month.

Now CDs are a different story, I have over 5,000 CDs in my collection - I buy a lot used, but still average is probably $8.50 each and I could only sell them for about $4.00 each, so I would take a giant loss here. Then again I have no intention of selling my CD collection.

Bill Baker · « **Reply #14 on:** 6 Nov 2007, 10:16 pm »

being a dealer, obviously the gear doesn't apply for me.

Quote

Now CDs are a different story, I have over 5,000 CDs in my collection - I buy a lot used, but still average is probably $8.50 each and I could only sell them for about $4.00 each, so I would take a giant loss here. Then again I have no intention of selling my CD collection.

I know the feeling. I have maybe 2,000 CD and up to a few months ago, had over 8,000 LPs after a friend gave me about 3000. I have given away and sold many of them and now down to less than 3,000.
I still buy new and very good condition used LPs and realize I would never get what I paid for them if I ever wanted to sell them. Of course, I have no plans on selling my LPs as I may actually have time to sit down and listen some day.

Buying audio gear is sometimes like buying a new car, it will start to depreciate the minute to take it off the lot

SwedeSound · « **Reply #15 on:** 7 Nov 2007, 01:05 am »

Quote from: zacster on 6 Nov 2007, 08:58 pm

How does this all sound? I wouldn't trade it for anything I heard at HE Expo in NYC last spring. There is something about going to a show like this and being relieved that you can go home and hear something that REALLY sounds good, and you built it ALL yourself. I doubt I could put together a system like this for under 15k, or for that matter for over 15k as I didn't like 99% of what I heard that day.

That's really the bottom line, for me. I love hearing other systems, but there's something gratifying about coming home to your rig and being pleased with the sound -- and perhaps the price tag as well.

SET Man · « **Reply #16 on:** 7 Nov 2007, 01:09 am »

Hey!

This is not easy for a DIYer like me to calculate since my system are made up of modded, kit, and of course home made stuffs.

But if I weren't a DIYer I would definitely look around and shop for used gears for sure. I almost pull a trigger on a used JA Michell turntable last year but the little DIY guy that live inside my head convinced me not too and modded my cheappy but cheerful Rega Planar 2 instead.

Take care,
Buddy

clave · « **Reply #17 on:** 7 Nov 2007, 02:09 am »

I cannot do the math without having several drinks. If I could go back in time to about 8 years ago, I would have stuck with my Yamaha receiver and Boston HD-5 bookshelf speakers. I have two consolations for the amount of money I have dumped into this "hobby." One is that many people have wasted far more money on much less meaningful things. The other is that I have a pretty awesome stereo.

TONEPUB · « **Reply #18 on:** 7 Nov 2007, 05:47 am »

Way more than is reasonable and prudent, but I'm very happy with the purchases....

DaveC113 · « **Reply #19 on:** 7 Nov 2007, 06:09 am »

Quote from: jaspal kallar on 6 Nov 2007, 07:36 pm

Curious to know what's yours system Dave?
jaspal.

Hi,

Its Omega XRS speakers with a 10" Adire xbl^2 sub in a sealed cab, Trends T-amp, Anthem Pre1 tube preamp, Audio Alchemy re-clocker and DAC, and a Yamaha burner or Sony DVD used as a transport. Its in a small space with some room treatments, mods and tweaks, DIY ICs and use bulk Anti-Cable speaker cable with bare ends coated with silver contact enhancer. I'll probably upgrade the source and dac at some point, maybe add a turntable...

Dave