[satfrat]

I just picked up a used Force XL and am trying to integrate it with Odyssey Lorelei's. I'm currently waiting for a sub CD from Mike Dzurko but in the meantime, I've been trying to use my ear and common sense w/o the benefit of actual knowledge. So I thought I'd throw this out, just to see how flawed my common sense really is.  

I use Odyssey Lorelei's with a Scan Speak 8545 driver and the port plugged to cut the cabinet interaction. Here's a frequency chart of the driver.



With my Sunfire Theater grand 4 processor, I have the Lorelei  frequncy cut at 80hz so the 70hz drop that the graph shows is being bypassed. I use the 20hz inputs on the Force and have them both set at 80hz that in my thinking would be filling the 70hz dip of the scan speak driver. I have the sub on a 26" sub stand that's placed up front, next to and on the inside of my right Lorelei so the phase is 0. To my ear, it sounds pretty damn good & fast w/o being centalized, in other words it's blending well with the mains. As it is, the Force hids itself better than the front firing Cerwin vega, Velodoyne, or Adire subwoofers that I've previously owned. My room is heavily treated 11 x 17' and I'm only concerned about the sweat spot, not the whole room so I take my test tone readings from this one spot. Using the rumbling test tone of my Sunfire, I'm seting the Force at about 4hz over at the peaks of the 6.0 system.

Am I missing something, is there something I need to be looking at? I hate to just trust my ears when my mind is flawed.   (if that makes any sense) It never hurts to ask questions, that much I do know.

I've never used a test CD that Mike's sending so I really don't know much about that either. Hopefully it'll be self explanitory. Anyone have any thoughts and/or explanations that might be of some help?

Thanks.

GO RED SOX!
Robin

[bpape]

You need to consider what the speakers are doing in the that cabinet in that room rather than the raw driver data.  If you can get the Lorelei's to work smoothly down lower in your room, I'd cross the sub over a little lower.  The Lorelei's have a nice bottom end as long as it's not a huge room.

Bryan

[satfrat]

But then again, I've plugged the portholes so that bottom end won't be there. Let's face it, that low end isn't coming from the drivers, it's coming from the cabinet and it's being directed from behind the mains. The subwoofer on other hand is right up front with the mains and it's sealed cabinet bass is being radiated thruout the room. There's really no contest which is throwing out the tighter lower bass. But I see what you're saying about that chart, it's not relevent to it's application. So much for my thought process there. 

Robin

[bpape]

If you cut off the xover in the processor at 60Hz, there's no point in plugging the port as it's tuned below that.  If anything, you're making the cabinet resonate MORE by blocking the free flow of air in and out of the port. 

Bryan

[ajzepp]

Robin:

I'd love to hear more about your impressions of that sub after you get the thing dialed in and spend more time with it. I've been very loyal to another subwoofer company with a three letter name since 2001, but something about the ACIs is very alluring. I'm sure I'll be able to keep up with your experiences on the forums, but othewise please PM me down the road if you get the chance. I just have a really good feeling about this company,and I love the effort that they put into helping consumers, both here and on their amazingly helpful website.

Thanks!

[satfrat]

It's still real early here, i've only had this sub 6 days and it's still a work in progress. But it's fast, solid, tight,,,, in other words very musical. I've had Cerwin Vega, Velodyne and Adire with the Adire being the best but unreliable. So far, I'm liking the ACI the best. All the others were front firing, this is my first downfiring and I also have a home built sub stand for this Force. I'm sure it's contributing to the clean bass. The stand is a 26" Real Traps Soffit that has 1.5" recessed cardboard caps on each end. BTW, the Soffit is a cardboard box filled with fiberglass. I had Timberlands make me up 2 oak platforms, 2" thick for each end and 4 corner leg, 2" square with a 1" corner cutout so to fit over each Soffit corner and add support for the weight. Everything was glued together but for added vibration dampening I filled those 1.5" receesed end caps with 3" thick open cell memory foam, the heaviest density I could get. When the oak platforms were glued to the Soffit, the memory foam was half compressed so any vibrations coming thru the oak should be somewhat obsorbed thru the memory foam. I spray painted the exterior with a Stone Creation black granite paint, then polyurethaned the finish. There's a good contrast between the granite like black and the red oak. For the base, I fit 4 of the largest 2" Audiopoints. For the sub, I placed 4 wide bodied 1.5" Audiopoints to couple to the oak and on top, I have a 2" platform of Champlain Black marble,  came from about 40miles from my house at Lake Champlain here in Vermont. Under the marble, I have 4 Herbies Big Fat Black Dots that not only protect that piano black finish of the Force XL but they'll also help keep the marble from resonating.
It'smy feeling that this whole package surpasses the cabinet bass of the Lorelei's,,, and that in no way takes away from the Lorelei's bass which is very good in it's own right. I just wanted a little lower, tighter, faster,,,, a little better. And I really think I'm getting there. But other than setting everything at 80hz, I don't have a clue about even how to use ACI's test CD or their frequency charts. I've always used the Sunfire's test tone to evenly level all the 6 speakers while giving a 2db rise to the peak rumbles of the sub. Even at that, most of the db readings are lower than the others.

I like what I'm hearing but it was way too simple what I did to think it's right on,,,, especially after hearing all the difficulty everyone else goes thru and with the dual adjustments that are available on the sub, let alone the Sunfire's bass cutoff. I know i'm missing the boat on this dial in phase and I'm just trying to get a clue as to what to do. Maybe an owners manual would help? 

GO RED SOX!

Robin

[bpape]

Set the level close first between the sub and the mains. 

Set the xovers on the sub to max to disengage since you're using a processor.

Play a pure tone at the xover frequency.  Use a meter and a 2nd person to adjust phase until you get the most output (make sure to run the mains and the sub while doing this).  Your phase is VERY close.

Measure the response of the room.  Play with location to smooth out as many nulls as possible - especially low ones.

Repeat the first 3 steps as phase will change slightly with location.

Now you can start with 1 of the xover adjustments playing with it starting about 20Hz above the xover point to maybe 20Hz below or where the first 'nasty' is.  Remeasure. 

Adjust the level again acccordingly.

Repeat above with the 2nd xover if you need to.

That'll get you REALLY close.  The longest thing is playing with location to get it blended with the room as good as possible.

Have fun

Bryan

[Mike Dzurko]

Robin:

Setup tips here:  http://www.audioc.com/library1/subsetup.htm

Download manual here: http://www.audioc.com/library1/manuals.htm

And we should very soon have more Sub setup discs in stock and have one on the way to you . . .

Bryan is giving you excellent advice. You can see one of the reasons I love sharing the room with Bryan at RMAF, he really knows what he is doing! By the time I fly in, things are already sounding good 

[satfrat]

Bryan, I'm very limited in where i can actually place my sub stand in a 11' x 17'  room that only has space for 2 chairs as it is. I've posted the front of my room before but for the sake of this thread, i will do so again. You'll see that behind the sub stand is a 4' tall Real Traps Soffit plant stand. Other than Eighth Nerve Adapt & Response Room Tratment kits, I also have 3 Furutech Room Diffuser Panels on the first reflection points of the side walls and the ceiling. Unreal what the ceiling diffuser did for really opening up a small room to concert hall status. People never think to treat this reflection point, especially in a 7' high drop ceiling like I have. I opened both LowPass Controls to 240hz and let my Sunfire's 80 hz cutoff control everything, then adjusted the volume accordingly. I seem to have less boom when in another part of the house and the bass is all you hear. In my chair, the bass sounds more fuller. I'm not sure if I should be even messing with the subs low pass controls at all. The fact that I used the left/right 20hz inputs instead of the home theater connection is definitely a good thing for music. I will adjust the volume accordingly for movies, no big deal there. I'm not sure why you suggested moving the phase control unless I had moved the sub to another part of the room away from the mains? I prefer to have the sub stand w/ForceXL right where it is next to and on the inside the left main and as such I would think that messing with the phase would only mess with the timing between the mains & the Force XL.  

 

GO RED SOX!

Robin

[bone215]

trust your ears
sometimes with ACI it really is that easy.

[satfrat]

trust your ears
sometimes with ACI it really is that easy.

Yep,that's what I did by setting my processor on 80Hz and turning the Force XL's frequency all the way up. Sounds damn good too. BUT I want to tinker like the PRO's do,just toseefor myself if I've been missing the boat with all my past subs. Just from the last week with this  sub, it's by far the best all around sub I've ever had. Mike Dzurko sent me a tuning CD and instructions, I just need to read it a couple dozen times til it sinks in what it's telling me. I'm a little slow learner,,,,always was. But I must like what I'm hearing, I pulled a 19 hour listening session yesterday. To be honest, Jim Goulding's wool tweeter surrounds had a lot to do with that.   


Robin