[randytsuch]

I have been concerned about safety, and not setting my house of fire for a while  , because I like to build my own stuff, including power supplies.  The thread on film caps in place of x/y rated caps remined me of this subject again.

The other day I had a thought, what if I used GFI outlets for my DIY audio gear?  I have most of it in exile, out in my garage, where I listen with my K1000 cans.

With GFI outlets, if there is any sudden current surge, the outlet will just shut down.  I would think there would be much less risk of any accidents with this type of outlet.  There may be some performance penalty, versus a better normal outlet, but I am not sure of that at this point.

Any comments?

Randy

[Big Red Machine]

Arc fault breakers at the panel are better yet.

[randytsuch]

Arc fault breakers at the panel are better yet.

Thanks for the tip, these things look like the ticket to me 

I was going to go to Home Depot tomorrow anyway, and these look like a good thing to have, not even considering my diy stuff.

Wikipedia's definition
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arc-fault_circuit_interrupter

Randy

[randytsuch]

I did find one company that makes combined AFCI/GFCI breakers, but they are expensive, over $100 each.  Here is a part number for one type, CL115AFGF

Just AFCI breakers are cheaper, more like $40 each.

BTW, it seems like AFCI breakers are now required for bedroom outlets in new construction.

Randy

[Occam]

Randy - I'm unsure why an afci would be preferable for av equipment in lieu of a gfci. A gfci protects against shocks (even in the absence of a proper safety ground) by checking for any imbalance of power flow between hot and neutral and an afci protects against low power arcing which causes fires due to frayed/faulty cords. There might well be effective combo units, but one does not substitute for the other.

[randytsuch]

Randy - I'm unsure why an afci would be preferable for av equipment in lieu of a gfci. A gfci protects against shocks (even in the absence of a proper safety ground) by checking for any imbalance of power flow between hot and neutral and an afci protects against low power arcing which causes fires due to frayed/faulty cords. There might well be effective combo units, but one does not substitute for the other.

When I was talking safety, I was worried about arcs, but burning my house down.  But, since the combo breakers are so expensive, I was thinking about using afci breakers for my garage, and bedrooms, then use gfci outlets where I really need to shock protection.  I had some outlets installed outside a few years ago, and the guy did not use gfci outlets, so I will change at least those, and probably the ones in my garage too.

Randy

[samplesj]

When I was talking safety, I was worried about arcs, but burning my house down.  But, since the combo breakers are so expensive, I was thinking about using afci breakers for my garage, and bedrooms, then use gfci outlets where I really need to shock protection.  I had some outlets installed outside a few years ago, and the guy did not use gfci outlets, so I will change at least those, and probably the ones in my garage too.

Wow, a professional didn't install GFCI protected outlets outside?  If he didn't run a new circuit maybe he daisy chained them off an existing GFCI (garage or kitchen maybe)?

Just keep in mind that for DIY safety a GFCI isn't foolproof.  I'm pretty sure that if you hit something after the secondaries on a transformer its not really going to help.  Of course even a tiny bit of added safety is worth it so I do all my testing on GFCI outlets too.

[TomS]

I sometimes just use a variac to power up new stuff slowly, after triple checking wiring.     Then watch for smoke, pops and such

I found two cases in my house where the electrician had somehow NOT wired the downstream leg outlets to GFCI's correctly.  They didn't even work and could not possibly have been tested.  I did check them at the outlets (not the push test on the GFCI outlet) and ended up calling a master electrician I know to fix it all.  Don't assume anything.  I can't imagine not installing them on the outside of a house.

[Big Red Machine]

Just so happens that the guy who invented AFCI used to work for me.  Started out investigating out of curiosity, as researchers tend to do, why there were so many fish tank induced home fires.  And years later the AFCI effort was well under way.  It is now used in aircraft as well.

Now many companies sell that technology.  I personally use AFCI's and have GFCI outlets in the same circuits in my basement rooms.  The AFCI is a pain sometimes because it will trip at the whisker of a spike which reassures me of the safety aspect.  I'd rather reset the breaker than have a fire.  And I mean that if I turn on my amps in the wrong sequence they trip, not that I have power issues or wiring issues.

I am not an expert on this technology, but the guys I know who have developed it really know what they are doing.  So kinda like sleeping at the Holiday Inn Express or maybe by osmosis I am smarter?

[randytsuch]

Wow, a professional didn't install GFCI protected outlets outside?  If he didn't run a new circuit maybe he daisy chained them off an existing GFCI (garage or kitchen maybe)?

Just keep in mind that for DIY safety a GFCI isn't foolproof.  I'm pretty sure that if you hit something after the secondaries on a transformer its not really going to help.  Of course even a tiny bit of added safety is worth it so I do all my testing on GFCI outlets too.

I have one old outlet, and two newer outlets outside, and I am pretty sure they are not daisy chained to other GFI's.  Before my recent kitchen remodel, the only GFI's I had were in the bathrooms.  I am going to pick up some GFI's today at HD, and at least replace the exterior outlets.  One is in my front yard, powering my Halloween lights.  It's a couple feet from a sprinkler.

Randy

[TomS]

Go ahead and shoot me for saying the obvious, but I'm assuming you understand that slave outlets are usually "daisy chained" to a single GFI protected circuit?  You don't need one everywhere.

[randytsuch]

Go ahead and shoot me for saying the obvious, but I'm assuming you understand that slave outlets are usually "daisy chained" to a single GFI protected circuit?  You don't need one everywhere.

OK   
Seriously, thanks for reminding me about that.  But, in most cases, the external outlets are in different places, on completely different wires, so I still need a few for outside.  But, I can use just one for the garage, because the outlets I use there can be chained together.

Randy

[TomS]

I deserved that