[John151]

Here is my current system:

Source:  Stock SB3
Pre:  Odyssey Tempest with HT bypass.
Amp:  Odyssey Stratos - Stereo W/Cap Upgrades.
Processor:  Outlaw 990
Speakers:  Nomad Ronin on order
Surrounds:  Magnepan MMW rears.
Misc:  NAD T762 Receiver used to power surrounds and adjacent rooms (overly complex setup).

System does double duty:  two channel, and multi-channel.

Background:

I previously had an Eastern Electric MiniMax CDP, and Magnepan fronts.  I switched from the MiniMax to the SB3 for convenience as I hate CDs and their slippery and fragile jewel cases.  Wife hated the Maggies, so I sold those to keep the peace.  My current system just does not have the magic that it once had. 

The Ronins should help out, but I am thinking I need more magic up stream.   What changes would you recommend.  Tubed DAC?  Mod the SB3?  I am open to any and all suggestions.

[Bigfish]

Here is my current system:

Source:  Stock SB3
Pre:  Odyssey Tempest with HT bypass.
Amp:  Odyssey Stratos - Stereo W/Cap Upgrades.
Processor:  Outlaw 990
Speakers:  Nomad Ronin on order
Surrounds:  Magnepan MMW rears.
Misc:  NAD T762 Receiver used to power surrounds and adjacent rooms (overly complex setup).

System does double duty:  two channel, and multi-channel.

Background:

I previously had an Eastern Electric MiniMax CDP, and Magnepan fronts.  I switched from the MiniMax to the SB3 for convenience as I hate CDs and their slippery and fragile jewel cases.  Wife hated the Maggies, so I sold those to keep the peace.  My current system just does not have the magic that it once had. 

The Ronins should help out, but I am thinking I need more magic up stream.   What changes would you recommend.  Tubed DAC?  Mod the SB3?  I am open to any and all suggestions.

John:

I assume you are connecting the S3 to the Preamp using RCA Interconnects.  You do not indicate so I will also assume you are using the stock power supply for the S3.  If these assumptions are correct and you want to stay with an S3 you have to make a decision:

1.  Purchase a DAC and run the S3 through it and then to the preamp.

2.  Send the S3 to Bolder and have Wayne work his magic on the Analog Section

3.  Regardless of your choice of #1 or #2 you need a better power supply for the S3.  I currently use an Elpac VM 220 modified by Wayne and one of his Ultimate Power Supplies is on my wish list.

4.  I recently added a stock Burson Buffer between my Bolder Analog Modded S3 and Preamp.  It added significantly to the detail of the sound as well as widened the soundstage.  John of Black Sand Cable is using a Burson Buffer with an unmodified S3 and he claims the improvement over a stock S3 is dramatic.

Good luck on your path forward. 

Ken





Good Luck,

Ken

[John151]

Ken - The SB3 is connected to the Tempest via RCA jack.  Two channel is SB3->Tempest->Stratos, while multichannel is Oppo & Motorola DVR ->Outlaw 990->Tempest (HT bypass)->Stratos.

[Bigfish]

Ken - The SB3 is connected to the Tempest via RCA jack.  Two channel is SB3->Tempest->Stratos, while multichannel is Oppo & Motorola DVR ->Outlaw 990->Tempest (HT bypass)->Stratos.

John:

Do you want to keep the S3 as your source?  If so you will need to follow the advice in my previous post.  You might start with a power supply and a Burson Buffer.  Once you determine how this sounds in your system you can then send the S3 to Wayne of mods.

Ken

[JLM]

If your committed to the SB I'd send it to Wayne for at least the full enthusist mods.

Keep in mind that Channel Islands Audio has just released a middle of the road priced power supply for the SB (many have found the Bolder offerings to be either too cheap or too expensive).

I ran my modded SB without pre-amp as many have suggested (although the Burson Buffer might be ticket).  As I barely understand the science, if the SB output impedance is high a buffer is in order.  Output impedance values can run from 6 - 30,000 ohms.  Anything above 1,000 ohms might be considered high.

[marvda1]

John, I wouldn't do anything untill I got the speakers in and got a good handle on what my system sounds like before trying to decide what to upgrade next.

[Bigfish]

John, I wouldn't do anything untill I got the speakers in and got a good handle on what my system sounds like before trying to decide what to upgrade next.

Marvda1, that is excellent advice.  I missed the part in the post that the new speakers are on order.

Ken

[John151]

Thanks for the input, keep it coming!   

I don't fully understand the need for the Burson Buffer.  Isn't this part of what an active pre-amp does?   

marvda1 - That is excellent advice.  I am simply researching for now as I don't know much about DACs and the various mods that are available.  I will probably hold off on any major changes, but will consider smaller changes such as an improved power supply for the SB3.

I should also add that it will take some time to get used to the idea of spending more on mods than the original component.  I am also not crazy about a lot of separate components - I would strongly prefer a single component that does not need mods.  I like the idea of the SB Transporter, but I am not so crazy out the price. 

[Bigfish]

Thanks for the input, keep it coming!   

I don't fully understand the need for the Burson Buffer.  Isn't this part of what an active pre-amp does?   

I should also add that it will take some time to get used to the idea of spending more on mods than the original component.  I am also not crazy about a lot of separate components - I would strongly prefer a single component that does not need mods.  I like the idea of the SB Transporter, but I am not so crazy out the price. 

My Burson Buffer is installed between the Analog Modded S3 and the Odyssey Candela Preamp.  I don't understand what it does either but it is the best $400.00 I have added to the system. 

There are a bunch of guys on this site (BPape, TomS, DoubleUgly, Marbles and Zybar to name some) that can tell you about the quality of sound from a Bolder Modded S3 with Ultimate Power Supply.  If you are committed to the convenience of a streaming player versus a CDP and you want sound quality the Bolder Modded S3 is the way to go.  Based on my reading most people mod their Transporters to obtain a better quality sound.  The nice thing about the S3 is that you can add mods, buffer and power supply as money allows.

Ken

[John151]

Ken - Funny you mention the Candela.  Adding tubes into the equation is really what I expect I will end up doing, and the Candela has been of interest since Klause announced it not long ago.  I would love to hear your thoughts on how well the Candela works with the SB3. 

[satfrat]

This is JUST ME but i don't build anything until I have power conditioning, the foundation of any system IMHO. There's many who will disagree, that why I hightlited JUST ME.  It's my contention that any component won't see it's potential with crappy power going into it. That's been the case for me and my whole HT/music system is under the influence of balanced power. Oh well, that's where I stand, i'll step off the podium. 

Cheers,
Robin

[JLM]

Robin,

My limited experience indicates that power supply issues are localized. 

For instance we live in a new, rural, small, subdivision where the substation has no industrial loads on it.  Our house is fed from an underground service with our own transformer.  The house and all appliances are two years old.  All wiring is 12 gauge/20 amp or bigger circuits.  My audio system plugs into three dedicated circuits that are grounded together (not shared with the rest of the house).  Each of those circuits serve one cryo'd hospital grade duplex receptacle.

Under these conditions I couldn't hear the difference between battery powered amp and source and A/C (the source was switchable).  Others with the same source said the same.

In my previous place (50 year house with nightmarish wiring in a typical subdivision) I could hear the difference with and without a PS Audio P300, but it wasn't worth $900.

But I have heard older services make a noticable difference when the nearby light industry shut down for the night.


I'd say the foundation of any system starts with a good room and quickly moves to speakers.


Normally I'd avoid spending more for mods than the stock unit, but the SB has no moving parts to wear out and is stupid cheap for the features offered.


Ideally you could trial a buffer or pre-amp.  And yes, an active pre-amp can/should provide buffering, just check the input/output impedance specs.

[satfrat]

You my friend are one of the lucky few if your power is as clean as you think it is. Very very lucky indeed! 

Robin

[warnerwh]

After 35 years in this hobby the part that will make or break ANY system is room acoustics. Treatments are cheap compared to how much they help the sound. No ifs ands or buts about it.

You can have a 50k system in a room with many windows, hardwood floors with little covering etc.  Give me 10k and I'll put in the less inexpensive system only part of my budget is room treatment, commercial or diy, and you'll be amazed how much money you can waste until you can get this done. 

There are no amps, preamps, dacs or power line issues that will affect your sound any where near what your room acoustics do. If you have over a grand in your system you need room treatment.

[ZLS]

 aa  Hear! Hear! 

[satfrat]

AMEN!

[Daygloworange]

After 35 years in this hobby the part that will make or break ANY system is room acoustics. Treatments are cheap compared to how much they help the sound. No ifs ands or buts about it.

You can have a 50k system in a room with many windows, hardwood floors with little covering etc.  Give me 10k and I'll put in the less inexpensive system only part of my budget is room treatment, commercial or diy, and you'll be amazed how much money you can waste until you can get this done. 

There are no amps, preamps, dacs or power line issues that will affect your sound any where near what your room acoustics do. If you have over a grand in your system you need room treatment.

After attending RMAF 2007, a few things have become very clear to me. You needn't spend a ton of money to have a very good system. You more often that not, have to spend a little more to get a great system.

To me,    it simply breaks down to this:

Number 1:    Speakers.
            
                  You need to find a pair (or speaker system)that meet all your criteria and requirements.

Number 2:    Good electronics.

                  
                  Ones that properly drive whatever speaker system you may want. Ones that don't pass                    
                  along nasty attributes downstream to the speakers.
                  This includes whatever transport, pre, and amplifier combinations you may require.


Number 3:    A properly treated room.

                 This should be "Number 1". As a good room is paramount to being able to discern the subtle    
                 characteristics that separate good from bad, and good from great,
                 but seeing as how very few people start with no electronics, and        
                 limited knowledge and awareness of importance of room acoustics when they first foray into high end    
                 audio, I put it 3rd.

Number 4:    Combine all the above ingredients, and you're rockin' !  


Cheers