[Marbles]

Backround,  I've a Bolder Cable Mensa dac, DrPhoto has a Stan Warren modded Aiwa transport/MSB Dac combo, and I have the Empirical Audio modded Perp Tech P3a demo Dac.

Doc came up Saturday afternoon and we tried most every combination we could think of.

Associated equipment:

Transport for the Mensa and P3a is a Dan Wright and Emperical modded Sony DVP S7700.  Transport for the MSB is a Stan Warren modded Aiwa.

pre-amp was a Bent TX102 (silver)

amps are Symphonic Line Kraft mono 400's

Speakers are nOrh 9.0 rewired with Bolder Nitro.

all cabling except where mentioned is Bolder Cable Nitro.

Cliff Notes:
Basically the Mensa came in last with a harsher sounding midrange.
The MSB came in second with slightly rolled off bass, but a very pleasant midrange.
The Empirical P3a was the star of the show.

When we used the Bolder digicable (cryo'd with Silver Eichmans) on the P3a, the soundstage gained a lot of depth and the notes had more air around them.  When the Empirical Bitmeister was used there was a more upfront sound.  We preffered the Bolder in this system.

Most all listening to the Mensa was done with the Bolder digicable and a Bolder inline Bybee.

My own impression from listening by myself to the Mensa and P3a on Friday afternoon/night was that the Bybee helps the Mensa and hurts the P3a.

Almost all listening was done with the Bybee on the Mensa and not on the other Dac's.

With the Bolder digicable the P3a had a very liquid midrange, great layering, great bass and detail.  In fact compared to the other Dacs, that combination didn't seem to have any weakness's.

I hope to get my Chris Own dACK! in the next few weeks so I can see how that one compares.

One other note, all listening was done using the Bolder modded power supply on the Mensa and the P3a.


Price's,

Empirical Modded Dac, $1200 for used, $1400 new, add $377 for upgraded clock (demo unit did not have the upgraded clock)
Stan Warren Modded MSB/Aiwa combo ` $900 used
Bolder Mensa Dac (w/tubalator)$120 to buy the Dac, $410 for mods, plus tubolator $40 = $670.

My thanks to Doc for bringing up the biggest T-Bones I've ever seen, man were they good!
Beer was Highland Flame on tap from the local microbrew.

[jackman]

Great review Marbles.  I have to get some work done outside (wife's orders) however, when I return I'll give an account of my afternoon with Chris (inventor of the dAck!) and an evaluation that took place yesterday.  

The following gear was evaluated/auditioned:

1. Criterions from GR Research
2. Reference 1 speakers (
3. Ellis 1801's with different crossover setting (changed resistors in tweeters)
4. Dynaudio 1.8's

I must point out that we didn't spend too much time with the 1.8's or the Ref 1's but listened enough to formulate some feedback.

The main purpost of the day was to evaluate DAC's.  We auditioned the following:

1.  dAck! battery powered DAC
2. Perpetual P3A/P1A Modwright level 1 with upgraded cables and Monolithic PS
3.  Smart DIO with Bybee PS
4.  Chris's battery powered (insanely inexpensive CD transport that is not a commercial product).  

Chris is a really smart (Northwestern grad) and cool guy who knows a lot about audio, especially the design of digital circuits.  Much of the technology used in his DAC is proprietary and the results of the test may surprise many people.  I will say one surprise was that little (POS looking!) transport.  It was a simple computer CD transport hooked up to a battery for a power supply.  It sounded night and day better than my stock Cal Delta.  The transport/dAck! combo was extremely listenable.  Other than the "blackness", nothing stood out, it just sounded right.

Cliff note version:

DAC's: The battery powered DAC sounded closer to analog than anything I have ever heard on my system.  When combined with Chris's silver interconnect, the sound was detailed and never harsh.  I'll give the plusses and minuses of the design (at least my view) but the overall performance was a bit stunning.  It even looks cool.  I will place my order shortly.

Speakers: The Ellis (with new resistor setting) 1801's are perfect for my system and musical taste.  We tried (with poor or harsh recordings) but could not get them to sound bad.  I absolutely love the sound and was a bit taken back when I preferred it to the sound of the larger Dynaudio speakers.  The Ellis had a balanced and refined presentation compared to the other speakers in the test, although each had strengths and weaknesses that I'll address specifically in the detailed write-up.  Although we didn't play around much with positioning, the Dyn's displayed quite a bit of sibilance and never sounded as good as some of the other speakers in the test.

I look forward to your impressions of the dAck!.  It didn't have the powerful bass of the Smart, which I thought was a bit overblown and slightly distorted, or the slightly extended highs of the Perpetual combo, but the overall sound was pure analog.  I never knew was "black" background sounded like until I tried Chris's dAck and el-cheapo transport.  A battery powered transport is not a practical option for me, but the battery powered DAC ran all day and showed no signs of batteries running down.  We never even plugged in the charger.  Anyway, more to come....

Thanks to Chris and Bob Albano for coming over with all that gear.  Both are good guys and very enthusiastic audiophiles.  Hopefully, they will chime in when I post my review.  We didn't have a chance to recap anything and their comments will most likely be a bit different than mine.

Jman

[Marbles]

Jman, did Chris mention an upgraded dACK!?  You know like Danny Ritchie did?

[nature boy]

Marbles and Jackman,

Thanks for the impressions guys.  I've been living with the dAck! for an extended demo session thanks to Chris.  Not the most refined looks, but I care most about the sound.

Danny Ritchie and I have some time logged in with this unit - we both really like it.  Danny substituted some Sonicaps for the Auricaps Chris puts in the dAck!  Last I heard Danny was sending Chris some Sonicaps for Chris to listen to in the dAck!

I agree, the closest thing to analog I've ever heard and the thing sells for only $395.  Chris has a bunch of orders he is now filling, so I hope he gets to listen to the dAck! with the soncicap substitituion that Danny recommended.

Danny might want to chime in with the differences he heard if he is listening.

NB

[Sa-dono]

Thanks for the review Marbles! Good stuff I still need to get around to doing some DAC upgrades and mods..

Looking forward to your review as well J! I'm surprised Bob hasn't said anything yet. I guess he didn't want to start digging yet

I'm still rather interested in hearing the dAck as well..especially with the Sonicap tweak. My only concern is I would like these comparisons done with a good line conditioner in the system. Also, the dAck lacks an I2S input which is a big strike against it for me.

[jackman]

Thanks for the review Marbles! Good stuff  I still need to get around to doing some DAC upgrades and mods..

Looking forward to your review as well J! I'm surprised Bob hasn't said anything yet. I guess he didn't want to start digging yet  

I'm still rather interested in hearing the dAck as well..especially with the Sonicap tweak. My only concern is I would like these comparisons done with a good line conditioner in the system. Also, the dAck lacks an I2S input which is a big strike against it for me.

Hi Sando,

I listened to the the stock dAck, minus the Sonicaps and really liked it.  I don't know if the Sonicaps are an upgrade.  I believe Chris has tried both and likes the Auracaps better.  Regarding the line conditioner, it is not necessary with the dAck because it runs off batteries.  Also, my power is very clean and the Smart used a power source with Bybees.  Why does an I2S input mean anything to you?  Doesn't your transport have a coax input?  

Also, talk about a wire debate...Chris was running the dAck with a $25 computer transport and a pair of IC's he just wired together using cheap Cat 5 cable and some cheap plastic Rat Shack type RCA's.  The cable could not have cost more than two dollars.  Still sounded better than any digital source I have ever tried on my system.  

Jman

[Marbles]

I forget to mention all Dac's and transports were plugged in to my PS Audio PP600.

[Sa-dono]

Hi Sando,

I listened to the the stock dAck, minus the Sonicaps and really liked it.  I don't know if the Sonicaps are an upgrade.  I believe Chris has tried both and likes the Auracaps better.  Regarding the line conditioner, it is not necessary with the dAck because it runs off batteries.  Also, my power is very clean and the Smart used a power source with Bybees.  Why does an I2S input mean anything to you?  Doesn't your transport have a coax input?  

That is why I said Sonicap tweak I imagine it will just be a matter of preference between the Auricaps and Sonicaps. From what I have read in reviews, the dAck with Auricaps lose a little extension in the high end and have a slight amount of bloated bass. While I would like to hear both, if I had to just pick one, I would be inclined to hear the dAck with the Sonicaps, based on my preferences.

As far as the line conditioner, it would be to even the power equation out for the DACs, and therefore lower the difference based on the battery power. Regardless of how clean the power is, I still imagine 95+% of people could still benefit, to some degree, from a good line conditioner. On the other hand, it'd be interesting for Chris to offer some kind of tweaked power supply for people auditioning, to be able to run standard electricity, as a different option. As always, your opinion of differences in power will determine whether you care.

And the I2S input is important to me as it is currently the best way in audio to transmit digital data IMO. My transport does have a coax output though.

[nature boy]

Jackman and Sadona,

That is why I said Sonicap tweak  I imagine it will just be a matter of preference between the Auricaps and Sonicaps. From what I have read in reviews, the dAck with Auricaps lose a little extension in the high end and have a slight amount of bloated bass. While I would like to hear both, if I had to just pick one, I would be inclined to hear the dAck with the Sonicaps, based on my preferences

This is what I heard in my system with the stock Auricaps.  Not to say the DAC did not sound nice, I was not as concerned with the lack of high extension but the deep bass was a "bit murky".  This should not be a problem,  except for folks that listen to large orchestral arrangements, organ music, etc.  

Nuff said - its a great DAC and this is a minor quibble that needs to be put into proper perspective.

NB

[jackman]

That is why I said Sonicap tweak  I imagine it will just be a matter of preference between the Auricaps and Sonicaps. From what I have read in reviews, the dAck with Auricaps lose a little extension in the high end and have a slight amount of bloated bass. While I would like to hear both, if I had to just pick one, I would be inclined to hear the dAck with the Sonicaps, based on my preferences.

Hi Guys,

I did not experience any issues with bloated bass.   If anything, the bass was very detailed with the Auracaps (at least on my system which does not produce any sub 40 hz bass) and the overall sound was very analog.  Chris is a big vinyl guy (his preference, I dont' mean to imply he is made of vinyl, although I don't know for sure...) and feels the Audiocaps sound very vinyl.  No artifically bloated bass or extended highs.  This product is not one that will drop your jaw with anything it does in particular.  It's what it doesn't do that makes it special.  

Sando,

You will never see the dAck! with a power supply other than the battery option.  The batteries, IMO, seem to provide a clean and consistant power supply that is better than the best regulated power supplies I have tried.  It would take a lot to make a PS for this unit that would come close to the batteries and that would probably not make it economically feasible for Chris to offer it at this price.  Regarding the IS2 cable, I would put this DAC up against any other DAC in terms of musicality and smooth (yet detailed sound) reproduction of music, IS2 or no IS2.   Maybe Chris can expound on the merits of connectors.  Honestly, during the comparison, he only used the cheapest wires you can get (on the dAck).  I used more expensive (and nice!) Bolder digital cables and M80's on my Smart.  

Chris is back-ordered for about a month.  Look for my Smart DIO with Bybee PS in the classifieds soon.  I was that impressed with the dAck.  Will post complete write-up soon.

Thanks!

Jman

[hectic1]

Thanks for the review Marbles! Good stuff I still need to get around to doing some DAC upgrades and mods..

Looking forward to your review as well J! I'm surprised Bob hasn't said anything yet. I guess he didn't want to start digging yet

I'm still rather interested in hearing the dAck as well..especially with the Sonicap tweak. My only concern is I would like these comparisons done with a good line conditioner in the system. Also, the dAck lacks an I2S input which is a big strike against it for me.

Ryan, I won't be digging anything as I stand by my comments about the GR Research Criterions. I will say it again, they were impressive in their mid-bass presentation! Get over it already!  

Jack, I have to agree with you that I too was really impressed with the dAck and Chris's knowledge in general about certain aspects of audio. The dAck wouldn't work for me for one reason. 1) I don't know about the battery having to be charged and recharged as I would probably forget! I will say that yesterday was the best that I have EVER heard my Ref 1's sound. This could be due to a couple things so I can't attribute it all to the dAck. I didn't spend enough time with my Ref 1's with the P-tech gear compaired to the dAck to formulate a good opinion.  I knew that you would end up ordering one as you were like a kid at Christmas yesterday. I have to tell you that the Ellis also sounded the best that I have heard them yesterday. I definitely like the more natural and smooth presentation of the dAck to your DIO. The dAck had that sense of blackness that I just never felt before with your DIO and I don't know if it was there with the P-tech either.  I would like to spend some additional time with the dAck and the p-tech as I couldn't get a good fell for both of them in the limited time that I had with both. I think you have definitely found a good match in the dAck-Van Alstine-Ellis combo. Now if we could just get you sorted out on your transport you would be golden!

[drphoto]

As some of you know, I've been very impressed with the Stan Warren aiwa/MSB combo. It is very analog sounding. Super smooth, but detailed. I was sure it would hold up well in any shootout.

And it did. BUT...the modded Sony DVD/modded P3 sounded better. And by better, I mean more transparent. More 'air' around instruments.

This setup was pretty stunning, especially with the Bolder digicable. The speakers just dissappeared and the sound floated behind the baffle plane. With the Emperical cable, the sound was more 'bunched up' around the speakers.

Of course, the Sony/P3/cable cost nearly 3x what I paid for mine, so I'm still pretty happy.

Marble's system now sounds about as good as anything I've heard. The rewire of the norh 9.0 with Nitro, the Kraft amps, and the 8th Nerve stuff made a big difference over what I heard at Marblefest. Now the music just flows effortlessly. It doesn't quite play loud enough for my taste, but hi-passing the norhs and adding a quick sub or two would solve that.

So thanks to Marbles for a nice night out. I had a blast playing kickball with the kids. (yes, I'm easily entertained!)

[Mad DOg]

this is good stuff! thanks for sharing...

[Rocket]

hi guys,

is there any chance we could split this thread i'm getting a bit confused  

regards

rocket

[Danny Richie]

Danny might want to chime in with the differences he heard if he is listening.

Pretty simply actually.

With the Auracaps the highs were rolled off and lacked a little detail.

Also the bass was not as extended and lacked a little tightness compared to the Bolder modded DI/O.

Many will not notice the bottom end as being a problem. The Alpha LS I was using hits a -3db down of 25Hz in my room, so it was easy to discern differences in the lower octaves.

The Sonicaps that were added were 3.0 uF with by-passed .01 uF Sonicaps.

The Auricaps were a 2.2 uF.

The larger cap value is what helped out the bottom end. This was expected. It might have been helped out equally well in the bottom end by changing the 2.2 uF Auricap to a 3.0 uF Auricap as well, but it would not fit in the chassis.

The 3.0 uF Sonicap is the exact same diameter as the 2.2 uF Auricap, but the Sonicap is about 3/8" longer. The added length was no problem.

As for the greater detail in the highs that is kind of a given too. The Sonicaps just flat excel over the Auricaps in that regard in just about every application.  

The highs are clearer, have less smearing, and have greater detail. By-passing them with a .01 uF Sonicap didn't hurt the highs either.

The faster dissipation of the smaller cap may have brought the rolled off highs back up to an even level with everything else. Clearly the highs did not sound as rolled off after the Sonicap upgrade.

The midrange sounded similar with both caps, very analog.

System matching might sway one more one way or another with the caps. If your highs are overly bright in your system or if the highs are just flat louder than they need to be then leaving the Auricaps in might be a better solution for you.

[nature boy]

Danny,

Thanks for the additional information.  

Chris Own,

Still waiting on an e-mail or PM to see if you will be offering the Sonicaps as an option or incorporating these into the dAck!

NB