[dcktr]

Long story, please bear with me
OK, I have adopted a Sony PS-X600 Biotracer turntable (and about 300 albums!). The TT is in good shape. Currently it has on it a goldring elan cartridge, that is apparently fairly new. I played it thru my denon 3805 HT receiver and did not hear much that would make me want to start washing records again.
I had asked over at AAsylum about the TT and the opinion was a good player but lousy cartridge. So instead of starting over with a new TT, I should get a better catridge and it would be fine.
I just purchased a Belles 28A reference Pre that has a mm/mc phono in it.
I received the recommendation of a denon DL 103 (currently a few at AGon for $125), and a Stanton MK something.
Questions: any other good recommendations for a cartridge in this price range?With the denon, .3mV output, output impedance  40 ohms (I do not know what that means)a low output MC cartridge, does my new Belles have enough  step up for it?
here are the specifications from the Belles website:

• Moving Coil Phonograph section
  Frequency Response 20 Hz to 20,000 Hz +/- 3 dB
  Hum and Noise 76 dB (mm + mc)
  Distortion less than 0.02%
  Input Impedance Adjustable at extra RCA input 0 to 1000 ohms (I have no clue how to use these either)
  Gain 26 dB

or would I just be better off with a higher output MC cartridge or MM cartridge - any suggestions?here is the MM info:

• Moving Magnet Phonograph section
  Frequency Response 20 Hz to 20,000 Hz +/- 0.1 dB
  Hum and Noise 100 dB (1 volt reference)
  Distortion less than 0.05%
  Input Impedance 47,000 ohms
  Maximum Output 6.7 volts rms
  Gain 40 dB

Thanks, just learning
Ron

[woodsyi]

Hello,

66 dB gain (40 + 26) should be enough for a .3 LOMC.  I would guess there is some adjustable impedance setting at the MC input (RCA) on your preamp.  I never heard it but a lot of folks like DL103 at that price range.  I am a sucker for LOMC. So, I would say give Denon a try.  Good luck.

[linkweewee]

Try this $199.00 cartridge for $84.95 while supplies last...you won't be disappointed...
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=45761.0

[lcrim]

Hi and welcome to the highly opinionated world of vinyl:
The phono section you have will serve just fine w/ MM or LOMC.  Getting the cartridge mounted in exactly the right spot requires a protractor that is compliant w/ your tonearm.  Online research should uncover the correct one and then you use it as a guide as to where the cartridge belongs in the headshell to get the overhang correct.
I also much prefer LOMC to MM and the Denon 103 is highly thought of.  I don't know what the mass of your tonearm is but the Denon is a low compliance cartridge and thus requires a tonearm w/ a good deal of mass for best results.  Additional mass can be added w/ spacer weights under the cartridge in the headshell.  Asking the right questions both here and over on the Asylum should get you going.
Good luck.

[TheChairGuy]

Despite the years many of us have spent 'perfecting' our vinyl setups, much is still left to your own subjective reasoning in the end.

Enough folks love their Denon 103's and Mr. Belles has an enviable record of building great gear...so your pairing there will likely be rewarded with great big smiles from you.  If not, keep trying....vinyl is a lot more frustrating than digital technologies to get right, but when you do, you end up with sound that mimics live better than any format today.

Hang in there - pop a few more questions off to the assembled masses both here and on Audio Asylum, and eventually, you'll get it right in the end 

John

[dcktr]

Thanks for the help so far.
Another question:
The Belles has 3 sets of RCA jacks in the phono section
1 for MC input, 1 for MC Load, and one for MM input

here is what the manual says:
includes RCA jack inputs used to connect a separate head amplifier section to a turntable, and additional jacks used to load a moving coil cartridge. The jacks uses to load MC cartridges are in values of 10,20, 50, 100, and 150 ohms. There is a seperate set of RCA inputs for MM or HOMC cartridges with the standard 47,000 ohms. Two turntables can be connected at one time.

the DL-103 specs are
Output: 0.3 mV
Output Impedance: 40 ohms
Stylus: 16.5 Micron round tip
Frequency range: 20 Hz to 45 kHz
Tracking force: 2.3~2.7g
Compliance 5 x 10-6 cm/dyne
Weight: 8.5g

I am not stuck on the DL103, your advice will help for any other LOMC I should consider

so how would you hook up the turntable with a LOMC?? and what are the different ohm jacks for?

[TheChairGuy]

I'm surprised to hear you have 3 rca inputs, including 2 for MC cartridges 

It's one of the MC cartridge inputs you want.....as it has the proper gain to match any LOMC to your preferred listening levels.  Without knowing which one offhand, use either or both, adjusting loads as necessary, until you hear your Denon or other LOMC sound correct to you.

Most folks using Denon 103's tend to settle in at about 100 ohm loading....you may find otherwise in your listening.

[dcktr]

Thanks guys,I think i have it figured out.
Turntable to the MC input, load plugs to the MC load area. Will try the 50 and 100 ohm plugs.
with the Denon 103 I ordered last night.
Time to start cleaning some records. Going to try and build one of the DIY record cleaners.
Going to get a record clamp or stabilizer.

Thanks

[royphil345]

I've heard the Biotracer is a very decent table. A little less bass weight and detail than the very best...

The DL-103 is a low compliance cartridge and works best with medium to high mass tonearms. It's popular with people using the Technics tables with S-shaped arms. Those are just heavy enough to work well with the 103 and most still add a little more mass. Since the tonearm on the Biotracer looks like a lower mass arm and is electronically controlled... I don't know if you'd want to mess with changing the mass of the arm too much or using a poorly matched cartridge. Don't know what the effects would be on an electronically controlled arm or if it could even be balanced properly with enough extra mass added.

I'd probably try a moving coil, especially since the phono stage in your preamp seems so capable and has a nice range of loading options.

Maybe consider an Audio Technica OC9 low output MC... Benz Ace low output MC...  Dynavector 10X5 high output MC or 20X low output MC...


Ooops... Or just hope the 103 works out great ... LOL   He made that last post while I was typing...

[dcktr]

Royphil
Thanks for taking the time to reply.
In looking through the manual, the mass of the DL 103 is within the recommended. Othwise I was going to try an AT.
Yeah, like all of us audiofools, I am like a pup with a new chew toy.
Lots of energy but without a consistent sense of direction.
these forums are great, and they enhance my ability to spend more money than I planned on.

With the sony, would you go for a heavy stabilizer or clamp? It is not suspended, and as you said, everything is mainly electronically controlled.

thanks

[TheChairGuy]

dcktr,

As your deck is non-suspended, spend as much as you can on isolation for your under your table.  It'll be more cost effective than throwing a lot of money at different cartridges. I speak from experience - trust me (as owner of 12 cartriges now).  You'll eventually settle in with one or two that you will love - and each has different subjective opinions on them.  What's best is the one you most enjoy - irregardless of what some consensus has reached.

Brass toes pointed down into a 3.5" thick maple block was the best for me...but there are lots of ways to achive good isolation for your deck.

Enjoy  John

[royphil345]

I wasn't talking about the mass of the cartridge, but the compliance. It's an old design with a very stiff suspension and works better with higher mass tonearms. It's rarely used on straight, low-mass tonearms. When it is, a substantial weight is usually added to the arm for more arm mass. Not sure if this would fly with the electronically controlled arm. Guess you'll find out... The DL-103 is an excellent value and I think you'll be pleased if it works out. If not... I'd probably give you what you paid for it. I love the 103 and will need another before long, so don't worry...

As far as a clamp or stabilizer... Just a matter of personal choice. I think the bearing on that table should be high-quality enough that you don't have to worry too much about weight. The one on my Sony PS-X5 was... The Sony X-tal lock speed control will insure you don't have any problems with speed either... no matter what.   As far a what I would choose... I don't know... I've looked at both and haven't bought either as of yet.

[dcktr]

Hmm,
I was not thinking  (or understood) about the compliance. As you said, check it out and see.
I paid 158 (new) shipped from some guy in germany.
About clamps or stabilizers. I imagine the guy who built my isolated rack could fabricate a quick one.

About isolation.
One thing I am proud of. My stand was made by a fabricator buddy of mine,
1.25 inch granite box base, 3 brass points into the carpet below, filled with sand, sand just high enough that the rest of the stand floats on the sand. Botton shelf has a steel plate, that floats on the sand.. 4 shelves of 1.5 inch maple, the whole thing weighs about 300 lbs. Right now the TT is sitting on its own feet. I was thinking of just using unhappy balls under it. Right now the stand has the turntable, Dodd power Conditioner, and the power amp.

thanks guys

[royphil345]

The stand sounds awesome!!!

Probably a German Guy named Willy Thakker. I'd probably change my name...  But, he's got the best deal going on the 103 and is a very reliable dealer.

If you end up having problems, just post here and I'll take the 103 off your hands. Be extra careful with it just in case... LOL.


EDIT:  You may want to experiment with some different mats or with putting thin spacers made from trash bags, paper pags, thin cardboard, etc... under your mat. The 103 is pretty "round" sounding for a moving coil, but when moving up to higher quality moving magnet and moving coil cartridges, it's pretty easy to hear when the vertical tracking angle is wrong, even by a millimeter or less. The 103 is a rather short cartridge, so it's likely you'd have to lower the tonearm height adjustment or use a thicker mat on a table without adjustable tonearm height to get the same effect.

[dcktr]

Thanks for the tips, should receive the 103 any day now, I will try your ideas, More difficult to adjust any forces with the "computerized" arm, but angle will take some time to get right.
Ron