[Sa-dono]

i won't sacrifice the dynamics & extension of an active pre, nor the soundstaging of tubes.  and, i awreddy get plenty detail & transparency.

You certainly do not have to. Synergy is all that is needed. I have found that to get proper soundstaging, the transport and/or DAC are what need to be focused on.

and, if needing remote, a tape-loop, and balance controls makes me elitist, then *screw* the common folk!  (personally, i tink these wants makes me more like the mainstream...)

Yes..this seems more mainstream to me. Certainly less audiophile, in that there will likely be some degree of degradation to the signal.


Dan:
Certainly I should have choosen my words more wisely. I knew that there was going to be gain added, and buffer used. By pass through, I was inquiring to whether you were going to go for a purely neutral sound. With the addition of the tubes, I was wondering whether you are actively seeking the liquid midrange, so oftenly sought with tubes?

[Psychicanimal]

francisco, i am glad ya like yer passive pre so much.  personally, i wouldn't trade my m.a.r. modded music-director for a placette, even if it put money in my pocket.  my pre needs to be active, & it needs to have toobs.  i won't sacrifice the dynamics & extension of an active pre, nor the soundstaging of tubes.  and, i awreddy get plenty detail & transparency...

The Placette is active, tubed & remote controlled.  Deano sold his Lamm linestage after comparing it with the Placette.

I do not understand why ewe are giving all these suggested "requirements" on a pre amp ewe do not intend to purchase.    

Dan talked to me about this project a few months ago and he asked for my feedback.  I told him what would it take for me to replace my Channel Islands pre.  There are two preamps I would seriously look at: The Placette and the Decware Zen.  Thorsten says the Decware is as good as it gets in a circuit topology and Deano says the Placette's volume control is as good as it gets.

[Psychicanimal]

You certainly do not have to. Synergy is all that is needed. I have found that to get proper soundstaging, the transport and/or DAC are what need to be focused on.  

This is very important--soundstage is dependent on the transport/DAC and/or  TT/phono stage combos.  A good linestage or passive preamp should not alter nor 'enhance' what comes in.

[modwright]

To Sa-Dono, I am using tubes for the active stage (rather than a zero-gain passive) because I like the sound of tubes better than SS in this application.  I am not really looking to ADD to the signal, in terms of warmth, or accentuating any particular part of the audio-band.  I sincerely believe that the right tube in the right application can sound excellent and balanced across the range.

RE options:  I believe there WILL be some sort of pre-out for people with a variety of different system needs, including subwoofers and outboard processors, etc.  Additionally, I believe I will offer two sets of outputs for biamping, etc.  I don't believe that there will be a balance in the basic unit, unless it can be bypassed.  The first unit will not have a remote control option.

I am still working it out, but if I find that I can't produce the quality of product that I want at < $1k, then I will increase the price to the minimum level required for me to offer a first product that I don't feel compromises anything sonicly, within a reasonable price-point.

Again, I appreciate all of your feedback.

Dan

[doug s.]

francisco,

placette makes 3 pre's, *all* solid state.  one, is a remote control wolume pot, w/only one in/out.  many folk use this $1k passive unit for their active non-remote preamps.  the second one, at $1400, is similar to the 1st, but offers 3 inputs.  the third unit, an active linestage w/remote, retails for $4k.  all units can be ordered w/balance controls for an additional cost.

as far as whether or not i am presently in the market for a pre - what difference does *that* make?  when is an audiophile not interested in someting that may sound better than whet he awreddy has?      presently, the retail $2k dodd audio pre is the only ting in my radar...  it's a full-function remote-control toobed pre, that was designed by a guy intimately familiar w/my present pre, & it's supposed to be a *lot* nicer...  relax, man - dan sez he's still gonna be offering two or three different iterations, so there will be a minimalist wersion for ya!  

sadono, 1st off, i agree that synergy *is* the main ingredient.  but, ime, the preamp is the first, most important piece of gear to get nailed down to your satisfaction.  and, in my case, since my system gets *at least* as much critical vinyl listening, & *more* critical fm listening than digital, focusing on the the dac/transport does nothing for at least 2/3's of my listening.

ymmv,

doug s.

[doug s.]

This is very important--soundstage is dependent on the transport/DAC and/or  TT/phono stage combos.  A good linestage or passive preamp should not alter nor 'enhance' what comes in.

i agree 100%.  but a *not good* linestage will negatively "enhance" the source.  ya need a good linestage to be able to adequately decide which source is the one ya want.  and, this is especially critical, if, as ya mention, ya  may have more than one source.

the above - which piece of electronics is most important - has been argued about, & will continue to be argued about, as long as people use electronic equipment to listen to music.  personally, i am in the preamp camp.  but, no way we will ever agree here, to everyone's satisfaction!  

regards,

doug s.

[Bill Baker]

WOW! I think the whole idea for this post was only to put the word out about a new product. Like anybody else in the design business, opinions are always welcome.

  There are far too many different opinions and options out there to catter to them all. What I prefer and my "theories" may not be in line with the next guy/gal. Personally, I like a good line stage and do prefer tubes. Balance?? I could live with or without it. Same for the remote. But I am only one person.

  Doug is right, it doesn't matter whether we are in the market or not, we are ALWAYS interested in new products. I don't think anybody here is trying to tell Dan how to build these products, rather giving their personal thoughts on what [they] would like to see in a product. That's great!

  I know I love to hear opinions on options on what people would like to see in one of my products. Doesn't mean I can offer all of them but I do what I can. I feel some of the most interesting ideas come from the end users of any given product.

[Psychicanimal]

sadono, 1st off, i agree that synergy *is* the main ingredient. but, ime, the preamp is the first, most important piece of gear to get nailed down to your satisfaction. and, in my case, since my system gets *at least* as much critical vinyl listening, & *more* critical fm listening than digital, focusing on the the dac/transport does nothing for at least 2/3's of my listening.  ...

Ewe are not getting the point, obviously.  Sa-dono was just using transport/DAC an example.  Could have said reel to reel as well.

This last week at work I observed one of the techs make an important observation to the supervisor and the supervisor came back several times saying, "I agree 100% with you--but...".  At that time I was thinking, If he agrees 100%, why there's a "but"?.  If one agrees 100% there's no room for "but".  Otherwise it's less than 100%.  Just *coincidence*...

I thought Deano had told me the Placette was tubed.  Anyway, I think Dan has the circuitry figured out.  Now it's a matter of adding the bells & whistles plus the volume pot.  I'm relaxed.  It's just that I've been discussing audio w/ ewe and been to your house and I have dealt with Dan for quite some time doing my mods and discussing sound.  I know where each one is coming from.  Ewe would not like his preamp over your Melos...

[doug s.]

Ewe are not getting the point, obviously.  Sa-dono was just using transport/DAC an example.  Could have said reel to reel as well.

well, if i'm not getting the point, then neither is sadono!     in fact, i tink perhaps it's *ewe* who's missing the point *i* am trying to make:  sadono & i both agree that synergy is important.  however, sadono believes that source needs to be focused upon 1st, for proper soundstaging; i feel the pre needs to be focused upon 1st.

as far as whether or not i'd prefer an all-out assault on a tubed preamp over my present pre, as conceived of by dan w.....  well, since it's still on the dwg board, and *neither* of us has heard it, as it doesn't even *exist*, i find that statement quite amusing!     while i certainly use opinions of others as to which equipment i'd wanna audition (and dan w's stuff falls into that category), i could never determine that i would or would not like someting i know nothing about, w/o actually *listening*...

regards,

doug s.

[Psychicanimal]

Amusing?  I think ewe find amusing me getting that Melos I purchased as my salary had just been slashed in 1/3 and I was going to lose my job after 9/11!  Ewe told me it was sooo good if I needed I should get cash from my credit card!  I ended using up some of my savings.  Now ewe say it was sold to me defective!  Not the Stalker.    His feedback speaks for himself and he's a super guy (someone that mods the quartz lock board on his 1200 must be).

The Melos was really good, but when I listened to Lak's crystalline tube rig I found out what a transparent tube rig sounds like--sparkling clear, no warmth, no euphonic coloration, no bloom.  I have heard yours, too.  The sound of Melos ewe talked me into is actually a coloration.  A coloration in a good way, but still a coloration.  I do not have to listen to Dan's pre cause I know (and he already posted) that his' will not add.  That's why I say ewe will not like it.

Sa-dono is telling ewe that the soundstage is brought up by the transport/DAC.  A linestage is *after* that part of the amplification process.  The same goes for a phono stage or tuner.

I'm out of here--Audiojerry wants the DeZorel back so I'm going to the post office.

Later!

[doug s.]

hi francisco,

ya, i recommended the sha-1 to ya - i'd still stick to that recommendation for anyone looking for a fantastic pre for ~$500.  i only said yers may have been defective, cuz ya said the toobs were ringing microphonically.  1st time i've ever heard anyone say melos gear was microphonic.

imo, the melos gear *is* neutral, not at all coloured or warm.  (perhaps there are some synergy issues, inwolved, tho?)  coloured and warm is how i would describe the cary slp-98 and the rogue magnum 99 i had prior to the melos.  before venturing into toobs, i had a linn kairn preamp.  an excellent solid-state pre, imo...  great flexibility, great ergonomics.  also, *extremely* transparent.  i liked everyting about it - *except*, it had a flat soundstage, even tho the width & height was supurb. i'd likely still be using it, if it had some soundstage depth.  

the melos i'm now using added no warmth at all to my system, compared to the linn.  it obscured absolutely no details whatsoever.  it allowed me to hear increases in detail when modding my dac - someting i did in stages - & each time, ya could hear the background noise drop further away, and the added detail would make itself apparent.  if my pre weren't so transparent, i don't tink it wooda allowed me to hear all the cumulative changes i was making to my dac.  the only tings the melos added to my system was soundstage depth, which was what i was hoping for, & added dynamics, which was an unexpected bonus!     if this is colouration, so be it - as ya say, it's in a *good way*, and that's what matters to me most.  i would now expect the same from dan's  - or anyone's - top-notch linestage:  extreme transparency, neutral, extended, dynamic, excellent soundstaging capability.

re: what sadono is saying, i am well aware of the order of the amplification process, thanks...    as i said before, i yust happen to tink the pre is the most important link in the chain.  as i also said before, i know others may disagree w/me.  tink i care, if they're stupid?     yust kidding...  actually, i know some folk tink the pre is so unimportant, they'd rather run their source gear straight in to their amps, bypassing the pre altogether.  to each his/her own...

doug s.