Carver Professional Tripath Digital Amps, Anyone?

kristian85 · « **on:** 4 Sep 2003, 10:27 pm »

The Carver Professional ZR series, all Tripath amps, are getting some very, very good buzz, and comes highly recommended by Stan Warren himself in conversation with me last week--and they're awfully cheap. 300 wpc ZR1600 fpr $800 online. They use the sameTripath stuff as Spectron/Bel Canto.

The sceptic in me says no way--they can't be any good. But, several folks I've heard from swear by them, stating they demand comparison with the best. Then I'm even more sceptical.

Anyone here used them?

wshuff · « **Reply #1 on:** 5 Sep 2003, 04:10 am »

Hi,

Could you post a link to some info on these Carver amps, especially the places that are selling them online? I'm having difficulty finding anything. Thanks.

ribit · « **Reply #2 on:** 5 Sep 2003, 11:30 am »

I originally bought my ZR 1600 to power my Larger VMPS sub. It works great with it. I read in Audio Asylum that some guys were using it on the front end and loved it. So I thought I would try it.
I have been using the new B&K Reference 200.7. I have the Marble 9.0's as my left & right speakers. Would you believe the Carver ZR 1600 sounds better than the B&K? It is more revealing and the bass is tighter.
I purchased mine from http://shop.store.yahoo.com/aicons/carzrpropowa2.html I am not affiliated with them in any way. They seem to have the lowest price.
One thing that does bother me though. It is the fan. I believe that it is too loud. I am trying to convince myself that I will get used to it because it sounds so good. So far I haven't. Hope this helps. Randall

JoshK · « **Reply #3 on:** 5 Sep 2003, 02:00 pm »

ribit,

it doesn't surprise me that the tripath amp sounds better. You should read up on low noise fans and try to find which low noise fan will work in your amp. Then try to replace it. This may solve your problem. I know John from QSC sold some of us a lower noise fan for his amps, maybe he could help you find one for yours as well.

rkapadia@ROOP · « **Reply #4 on:** 5 Sep 2003, 02:12 pm »

Not to offend, but isn't this off topic?

kristian85 · « **Reply #5 on:** 5 Sep 2003, 03:46 pm »

Quote from: rkapadia@ROOP

Not to offend, but isn't this off topic?

Well, no, isn't, given that it pertains directly to my overarching question of which amps folks use with VMPSes....

Stan Warren says to disconnect the fan--simple procedure--as it likely isn't necessary. Check how cool it runs without it, and go from there. Fan is meant for cooling under professional conditions where it is rackmounted with no air around it. And used extremely hard.

azryan · « **Reply #6 on:** 6 Sep 2003, 12:40 am »

Roop,

You're not maybe crying 'off topic' because he's talking about a much cheaper digital amp than the Spectrons you're a dealer for are you?
No. Couldn't be.

Anyway... Spectron doesn't use Tripath anyway. I'm suprised you didn't mention that.
Or at least they didn't, and I hadn't heard anything has changed?

There are several diff. digital amp chips out there.

I own two Tripath based amps and my ICEpower chip based eARTwo sounds far smoother and more realistic. Almost the exact same power rating too.

All in the design 'around the chip' I think, though the ICEpower method is not PWM like most (all?) the other digital amps out now.

audiochef · « **Reply #7 on:** 6 Sep 2003, 06:03 am »

kristian85, look,in my opinion,your'e placing too much emphasis on
which amp will make the magic for you.
As a long time VMPS owner, my question would be ,are you a tweek? meaning have you played with cables, line conditioning and EQs in your past ? Youv'e already seemed to indicate that your'e not. Thats ok.
But in not being a tweak ,VMPS would only be slightly above
average of other outststanding speakers in this price range.
In being a tweak, I'de recommend any of the fine amps discussed, including mine. Where VMPS starts kicking ass on the competition is dialling them in . IE passive radiator mass, high and mid frequency levels. If this is adjusted (tweaked) correctly,thats when nothing and I mean nothing can touch them at five times their price range.
No it's not an easy task to achieve this goal, but when it is you will hear and feel the difference.

respectfully, Stan

kristian85 · « **Reply #8 on:** 6 Sep 2003, 08:25 pm »

Quote from: audiochef

kristian85, look,in my opinion,your'e placing too much emphasis on
which amp will make the magic for you.
As a long time VMPS owner, my question would be ,are you a tweek? meaning have you played with cables, line conditioning and EQs in your past ? Youv'e already seemed to indicate that your'e not. Thats ok.
But in not being a tweak ,VMPS would only be slightly above
average of other outststanding speakers in this price range.

No, I indicated nothing of the sort. What I indicated is my unwillingness to buy into tweaks based on vaporscience, which in my estimation includes magic stands for amps, crazy powercords and much of the cable industry, dimes on top of speakers, little silly tuning dots adhered to equipment, speakercable stands (

), cryo treatment of stuff (insane), surface treatment of CDs, wiping equipment with magic potions, and other such non-scientifically based nonsense, all of which seems to be designed by

,

, and

. (I am fortunately supported in many of these views by many of the industry's most esteemed designers, who usually also happen to be actual engineers or physicists.)

I am a strong believer in proper setup and equipment matching. Many years spent in the highend world simply made me sceptical of vaporscience. VMPS designs, however, are firmly grounded in reality, and seemingly based on actual, solid engineering principles.

And, I'm also unwilling to debate the value of nut-tweaks--it's my belief that those who pursue HiFi as a faith-based belief system should be free to do so without my interference

.

rkapadia@ROOP · « **Reply #9 on:** 6 Sep 2003, 11:01 pm »

aryzan,

No, I'm not "crying" off topic because I represent Spectron. This post is off topic because I don't see "VMPS" in a single place in either the subject title or entire first post.

If krisitan85 was referring to digital amplification of tripath in the VMPS context, it would do well for him/her to specify in the title. How are people that view this single thread supposed to know this is VMPS specific, or the other questions/perspectives of kristian85 unless they decided to read every thread he/she posted in the order written?

The whole point of AudioCircle is to promote using all of the forums, and to encourage users to explore all the forums. While it's great to see so many proud VMPS owners, I think AudioCircle would benefit if these people shared their experiences and recommendations through the entire board.

I did not ever try to stop discussion, only to move it to the proper place to get a more varied input.

Also - there's no way to group "tripath" amplifiers and assume BelCanto and Spectron use the same module. Additionally, the amps are built on a different topology as BelCanto does not employ negative feedback, where Spectron does.

Kind Regards,

Rup

JohnR · « **Reply #10 on:** 7 Sep 2003, 02:46 pm »

Quote from: rkapadia@ROOP

The whole point of AudioCircle is to promote using all of the forums, and to encourage users to explore all the forums.

Actually... since this comes up, my perspective is somewhat different. I believe the point is to encourage communities. That will in turn lead to diversity and (hopefully) longevity of the site. VMPS and Aspen are good examples of manufacturer circles that have evolved their own community within the framework of the site.

rkapadia@ROOP · « **Reply #11 on:** 7 Sep 2003, 04:21 pm »

Well John, I'm not one to argue your perspective. I just wonder to the subjectivity of where the line is drawn as to what's "off topic".

Who decides what amount of deviation is acceptable to promote a community feel? Or maybe it's implied that all posts in a forum pertain to the forum? It's my concern that people will shy from joining or posting resulting from inconsistant moderation.

Certainly the following post promotes a community feel, but was deemed not appropriate?
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=4367&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=10
Additionally, there are countless posts from other forums that have been moved involving audio discussion but not-forum specific.

I'm not trying to be problematic, but I am a bit confused. Regardless, I'll drop the discussion after this post.

Kind Regards,

Rup

JohnR · « **Reply #12 on:** 7 Sep 2003, 04:33 pm »

Well, there's a difference between back-slapping and a community

In any event, the facilitator of the circle decides what is on- and what is off-topic. How that relates to my comment, I am not sure...

sharper · « **Reply #13 on:** 8 Sep 2003, 04:29 pm »

Quote from: kristian85

No, I indicated nothing of the sort. What I indicated is my unwillingness to buy into tweaks based on vaporscience, which in my estimation includes magic stands for amps,

Agreed.

Quote from: kristian85

crazy powercords and much of the cable industry,

Agreed. Mapleshade and A/P Oval 9 are exceptions IMHO.

Quote from: kristian85

dimes on top of speakers, little silly tuning dots adhered to equipment, speakercable stands ( ), cryo treatment of stuff (insane), surface treatment of CDs,

Agreed.

Quote from: kristian85

wiping equipment with magic potions

Have you tried ProGold? This stuff seems like it would fit in that ShunMook category of stuff...but it's gotta be one of the best "tweaks" I've ever tried...and it's not outrageou$.

Now we're really off topic.

kristian85 · « **Reply #14 on:** 8 Sep 2003, 05:29 pm »

Quote from: sharper

Have you tried ProGold? This stuff seems like it would fit in that ShunMook category of stuff...but it's gotta be one of the best "tweaks" I've ever tried...and it's not outrageou$.

Now we're really off topic.

Oh, well now, ProGold has actual scientific reasons why it would work. Clean, tight contacts are important. I'm referring here to some new liquid that costs $40/8 ounces, or someting crazy like that, that you are supposed to wipe onto the surfaces of your equipment to make it sound better......

cyounkman · « **Reply #15 on:** 16 Sep 2003, 03:55 am »

Quote from: rkapadia@ROOP

Also - there's no way to group "tripath" amplifiers and assume BelCanto and Spectron use the same module.

I think you can group 'tripath'-based amplifiers. The chips are licensed from a company called Tripath. Press releases on their website list Bel Canto and Audio Research as licensees, as well as numerous mainstream electronics companies (their bread and butter appears to be chip-based amplifier modules for televisions, sound cards, etc.). Carver Pro indicates on their website that they use the Tripath technology for the ZR and CV series amplifiers.

I'm certainly not the one to be telling you about the Spectron lineup; but my impression based on their website is that they use a 'regular' Class-D topology.

cyounkman · « **Reply #16 on:** 16 Sep 2003, 04:14 am »

Someone asked for a link:

Carver ZR Series info

As far the fan goes, these Class T amps claim efficiency ratings in the 90% range, so the need for a fan while driving any normal speaker load is unlikely.

rkapadia@ROOP · « **Reply #17 on:** 16 Sep 2003, 11:56 pm »

There seems to be a misunderstanding here - my phrasing was to mean that Spectron and Bel Canto are not in the same grouping of "tripath" amplifiers.

wongstein · « **Reply #18 on:** 17 Sep 2003, 07:35 pm »

Hi guys, I don't usually read this group because I don't know anything about VMPS (yet) but I think it's great that you guys talk about amps in what seems to be an appropriately named thread. The fact that you all have a common understanding of VMPS products means that you have some common ground in terms of standards. I tell ya, when I go into a group and and people are talking about some piece of gear that sounds great with their weird tweaky stuff that I've also never heard of, I have absolutely no idea if these guys have ears or not. I've been to some audio shows where some rooms sounded terrible, but people seem to buy it by the skid. Particularily when we're talking about things that are supposed to be a superb value, and are questioning the sanity of very high-end stuff, we need to have something in common.

Rock on.

Anthony

John Casler · « **Reply #19 on:** 18 Sep 2003, 03:47 pm »

Quote

The fact that you all have a common understanding of VMPS products means that you have some common ground in terms of standards. I tell ya, when I go into a group and and people are talking about some piece of gear that sounds great with their weird tweaky stuff that I've also never heard of,

I have absolutely no idea if these guys have ears or not.

I love that one. Do these guys "have ears or not"??

Hi Anthony,

The even more interesting thing is, that with VMPS, although the amp "IS" important, MOST good quality amps will sound great with the speakers.

Why?

Because the speaker itself is "tunable"

This quality, in and of itself opens up the "amp selection" to most of those with adequate power, low distortion and good S/N.

Now of course some amps will excel at some of these features and will sound better (Ampzilla 2K for example) but even some powerful receivers will sound totally adequate with the VMPS line, when tuned to their performance level.