AVA Ultra DAC 2 weeks into it

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martyo

AVA Ultra DAC 2 weeks into it
« on: 26 Sep 2007, 03:31 pm »
It's been 2 weeks since my Ultra DAC arrived. I do better listening over a period of time to a piece of gear, rather than what jumps out at me upon first listening.
A little history. In '91, when I went from Dahlquists to the Carvers I had to make the switch to CD. The Dahlquists were rated -3db at 37Hz, the Carvers, -3db at 20Hz. In my room I wasn't able to get the turntable isolated enough. I liked the improved dynamic range and lows form the Cd's, alot, and along with the Carvers, I finally had that lower octave that I had longed for since '77. Most of my listening by then was live concert tapes but as I began replacing my vinyl, there was something missing or lacking or just different with the Cd's. Then in '94, there were some lifestyle changes, our daughters sports "career", and some volunteer stuff, besides just busy life, and it got to where I rarely listened. Occasionally I would recall an old record, CSN&Y, Santana II,.....buy the CD and give it a listen and be disappointed with the sound. I'm not following anything with audio during this time.
A few years back my brother started really praising all this new gear he got. Asked if I remember this guy they talked about at the high end store we frequented back in the '70's, the guy that modified the Dyna 400, that TAS recommended, that his 416 was supposed to be based on. Also my brother is one of those people that couldn't listen to Cd's, too harsh, too dry, too analytical, too fatiguing........
and I can see this is getting too long.
He loans me his T5, I'm blown away, I buy a Super Pas 3i on eBay, and lay out a 4 year plan to upgrade my whole rig. But it's a 2 year plan now, got the amp and preamp in the spring and the DAC actually on 9/11.
I've already written about the T8 and the 550. Now the DAC. I wasn't convinced I needed a DAC. My brother loaned me his Transcendence R DAC for a month during the summer. (yes, he tried a few Cd's w/o it, but mostly just listened to FM during that month). I hooked it up and left it in the system and just listened except for a couple A/B's the first couple of days. After I returned the DAC to my brother it only took me 2 weeks of listening without it to order my own.
My first impression was WOW, just the difference between my brothers DAC was a little startling. His seemed to soften the transients a bit, and definitely didn't have the low end extension or dynamics of the rest of my other AVA gear.(No Ultra analog stage or 6N1P's). The soundstage dramatically increased. My Carver speakers had very narrow dispersion before the AVA amp and preamp. You were painfully aware that the sound was originating from the 2 ribbons. After the addition of the amp and preamp, the ribbons disappeared and the stage was completely filled from ribbon to ribbon. Now it extends 2 feet beyond the speakers but the depth is where the biggest increase is. It's as if the air around each instrument or vocal is 360 degrees. What was gray before is now black. The low end and dynamics are even better than w/o the DAC. My main listening buddy commented that "it seems there was still a bunch crap there that is gone now". It's hard to put into words all that it does, or does not, do. BrianM's review is more articulate, actually MUCH more.
Very rich (liquid), NO dryness or (digital) grain
MUSICAL, real
They did get all that was on the record onto the CD, and more! I guess it's always been there if it was done right in the first place.
More resolution and definition
More extension and way more air
More dynamic
Some have commented that the DAC might be Frank's best piece  of gear, could be. Or, I've always heard that the closer you are to the source the more noticeable changes will be.
Now my "in my VERY humble opinion" comment: Recently, there has been some talk of Frank's 16 bit processor being outdated. I wonder how many TRUE 16 bit processors there ever were. The significant improvements I heard between the Ultra and the Transcendence DA C's were improvements made in the analog section. Specs, the right ones, are really important to the engineer. A whole lot of specs may imply something but in the actual final sound mean nothing, especially with no standards in place, or even agreement on what matters. This guy, Frank Van Alstine, after 35+ years, knows alot about what matters. Does he know everything, no, and he doesn't work like he knows everything. He just keeps at it. Just in the couple of years I've been aware of his products he's had a couple of upgrades on his products, and each one has been significant and some with no price increases. I really believe many in audio "major in the minors", and it seems to be getting worse.

Back to my first impression, WOW, I'm really impressed with this DAC.
« Last Edit: 27 Sep 2007, 12:27 pm by martyo »

mcullinan

Re: AVA Ultra DAC 2 weeks into it
« Reply #1 on: 26 Sep 2007, 03:50 pm »
Congrats on the new DAC! It sounds like a keeper.
Mike

gjs_cds

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Re: AVA Ultra DAC 2 weeks into it
« Reply #2 on: 26 Sep 2007, 05:36 pm »
Great review, martyo.  Thanks for the post.

martyo

Re: AVA Ultra DAC 2 weeks into it
« Reply #3 on: 26 Sep 2007, 06:40 pm »
Quote
With the DAC, it was kinda like adding an extra layer to every detail.  Does that make any sense?  Probably not.  I basically mean a more natural timbre, note by note, and better attack & decay.  All the detail, depth + width, but a fuller-bodied sound, with lows, mids and highs more evenly balanced than with the CDP.  Like spreading a thicker layer of peanut butter or something...The end result is just more musical.  And, I almost hate to say it, warm.  I know warm is not an ideally neutral term, but it's still how this DAC impresses me. (Sorry, Frank..)  Maybe it's the improved, more natural midrange (the warmest part of the frequency spectrum).

I would use warm to describe the overall character of the sound too. Not warm like tubey sounding gear, I think warm like rich, full, you know, a thicker layer of smooth organic peanut butter.  :lol:

If it is a coloration it still seems to be a real integral part of sounding real and musical.

avahifi

Re: AVA Ultra DAC 2 weeks into it
« Reply #4 on: 27 Sep 2007, 01:38 pm »
Thanks much for the kind comments guys.

Caution readers, do not smear peanut butter on your CDs to improve the sound.   :D

Frank Van Alstine

mcullinan

Re: AVA Ultra DAC 2 weeks into it
« Reply #5 on: 27 Sep 2007, 02:32 pm »
Caution readers, do not smear peanut butter on your CDs to improve the sound.   :D

Ok I admit, it was possibly the worst metaphor ever.
What if he used grape jelly instead of peanut butter...

Caution readers, do not smear grape jelly on your CDs to improve the sound.
Wow.. I like that.
Mike

martyo

Re: AVA Ultra DAC 2 weeks into it
« Reply #6 on: 28 Sep 2007, 12:01 pm »
I got some listening in last night with music I hadn't listened to yet with the new DAC. I'm still getting totally blown away. All of the sound, the overall character, and all those qualities we already talked about are amazing. The front to back is what seems to be articulating and revealing each component of the music to new levels of definition and resolution. A total image. It articulates the music much better than me trying to articulate how it sounds. Just more real, a whole lot more of listening to the music, not the stereo.    aa

Brett Buck

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Re: AVA Ultra DAC 2 weeks into it
« Reply #7 on: 28 Sep 2007, 04:25 pm »

What if he used grape jelly instead of peanut butter...

Caution readers, do not smear grape jelly on your CDs to improve the sound.
Wow.. I like that.
Mike

   Oh, that's all just silly. Please stick with a proven solution - green magic markers.

     Brett

TjMV3

Re: AVA Ultra DAC 2 weeks into it
« Reply #8 on: 28 Sep 2007, 07:02 pm »
I'm told peach jelly provides a richer,  warmer sound which will make you feel warm and fuzzy.

Blackberry jelly a much more analytical presentation and no warmth.

Next step is to try organic extra virgin oil,  Canola oil and Corn oil. 

I hear good things about the extra virgin olive oil.  Not only does it do wonders for your sound,  but it leaves the skin on your fingers soft,  moist and tender Wink2
« Last Edit: 28 Sep 2007, 07:19 pm by TjMV3 »

DSK

Re: AVA Ultra DAC 2 weeks into it
« Reply #9 on: 15 Jul 2008, 08:11 am »
Martyo & BrianM,

Does whatever literature that comes with the Ultra DAC specify output voltage or output impedance?

Any further thoughts after further listening?


martyo

Re: AVA Ultra DAC 2 weeks into it
« Reply #10 on: 15 Jul 2008, 08:45 am »
DSK -

No such info in the literature. Frank or Larry should chime in, otherwise an email to Frank will get you the info.  avahifi@comcast.net.
 

avahifi

Re: AVA Ultra DAC 2 weeks into it
« Reply #11 on: 15 Jul 2008, 11:02 am »
Output impedance is 560 ohms.  Output voltage is plus and minus 3V will all the bits turned on.  Both numbers are absolutely normal for a DAC.

Regards,

Frank

ArthurDent

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Re: AVA Ultra DAC 2 weeks into it
« Reply #12 on: 15 Jul 2008, 01:31 pm »
Good writeup martyo -

I would echo all of what you noted. When I assembled my new system this past fall/spring I intentionally left the Ultra out of the loop for more than a month, running my old 100 disk Sony changer straight to the T-8 to get familiar with the sound. Upon re-routing thru the Ultra it was like a steroid boost  :nono: (in a good way). Fuller, smoother, 'warmer', more detailed. While I'm only driving the 2 channel with the 250EX Hafler rebuild, and never had a stand alone DAC, it is has been an eye opener into what impact a really good DAC can have on the overall soundscape. Mr. Frank definitely concentrates his efforts on details that are about the music, not the equipment, focusing on transparency for lack of a better term.

Enjoy -  :thumb:

Oh yes, and I've found that honey (preferably organic) works much better than jellies & jams. It's easier to read the green marker thru   8)

martyo

Re: AVA Ultra DAC 2 weeks into it
« Reply #13 on: 15 Jul 2008, 01:56 pm »
Quote
While I'm only driving the 2 channel with the 250EX Hafler rebuild, and never had a stand alone DAC, it is has been an eye opener into what impact a really good DAC can have on the overall soundscape. Mr. Frank definitely concentrates his efforts on details that are about the music, not the equipment, focusing on transparency for lack of a better term.

I/we, you know, us AVA guys, totally agree. Those efforts are apparent in your Hafler/250EX too.   8)

sueata1

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Re: AVA Ultra DAC 2 weeks into it
« Reply #14 on: 17 Jul 2008, 01:38 am »
I hope my Digital doesn't sound like Analog,,,,,,,,snap,crackle,pop,hiss,boom,scratch,wow,flutter,every 15 mins. to flip the thing,,,,no thanks aa