Solid State Pre-amps with Tube amps?

Tbadder1 · « **on:** 3 Sep 2003, 04:32 pm »

Why not?

I hardly ever see a recommendation for this combination. It struck me while I was reading the rave review of Ray Samuels' new Emmeline CA-2 Pre-amp posted on Enjoy The Music.Com. this month.

The suggestion seemed buried in the review that this inexpensive soild state pre-amp can work with virtually any kind of amp. I stopped reading, knowing something was wrong, but couldn't quite figure it out until later--virtually everyone acknowledges the possibility of a SS amp with a Tube pre-amp.

So what gives?

Dan

KeithR · « **Reply #1 on:** 3 Sep 2003, 05:14 pm »

i think pretty much because people who havn't had tubes before don't want to mess with tube amps, and tube preamps are easier to use.

that said, no impedance issues with ss preamps/tube amps, and even better combo is go cdp direct to tube amp imho. if i didn't have active speakers, probably would go this route.

Curt · « **Reply #2 on:** 3 Sep 2003, 07:00 pm »

It's done all the time. We have customers using our preamp with tube amps, even flea powered triodes and high-efficiency loudspeakers.

If someone falls in love with the sound of a nice tube amp and needs a preamp... SS can be a good choice. A fast, transparent, quiet SS preamp will give center stage to the tube amp not effecting its sound in any way.

Tbadder1 · « **Reply #3 on:** 3 Sep 2003, 09:11 pm »

That's interesting, but I'll betcha it goes the other way (SS amp, tube pre-amp) 90% of the time. Although I realize it's all anecdotal evidence on my part.

Jay S · « **Reply #4 on:** 4 Sep 2003, 03:59 am »

Tbadder, this may be off-topic, but you have the minimalist system that I had thought of doing 2 years ago when I started my audio journey. A high quality one-box source for cd/sacd/dvd. A high quality integrated amp. 1 interconnect, 2 power cables, 1 pair of speaker cables. Bravo!

Guan · « **Reply #5 on:** 4 Sep 2003, 04:32 am »

Tbadder: I echo Jay's sentiments

I also notice that you have Tyler Linbrook Monitors. Glad to know that I'm not the only one on AC who has a pair

How do you like your speakers?

Curt · « **Reply #6 on:** 4 Sep 2003, 08:11 am »

Quote from: Tbadder1

That's interesting, but I'll betcha it goes the other way (SS amp, tube pre-amp) 90% of the time. Although I realize it's all anecdotal evidence on my part.

Yes, it can go either way. A big factor is the loudspeakers used, most of the loudspeakers designed today seem to be 4 ohms with 4th order crossovers and only average efficency, this type of speaker can be a difficult load for a tube amp (a reasonably priced tube amp).

IMO 8 ohm loudspeakers are a better choice for both tube and SS amps as they create less distortions in the amplifier and often can yield a superior end result.

With todays loudspeakers and the cost of good powerful tube amps, your probably correct in saying more people have tube preamps than amps. But, there are many that love a tube amp and build there system around the use of one, so it can go both ways and depends on personal taste.

Tbadder1 · « **Reply #7 on:** 4 Sep 2003, 12:57 pm »

Quote from: Jay S

Tbadder, this may be off-topic, but you have the minimalist system that I had thought of doing 2 years ago when I started my audio journey. A high quality one-box source for cd/sacd/dvd. A high quality integrated amp. 1 interconnect, 2 power cables, 1 pair of speaker cables. Bravo!

That's exactly what I strove for--"keep it simple (with high quality) stupid." That's my motto. I'm quite happy with my gear, but my room just sucks. So I'll be working on a new house next!

But seriously, the jewel in the crown is the Levinson. It just sounds as good as my friend's ARC Reference combo (albeit with less oomph), it drives any kind of speaker easily, it cheap when you thing about saving the money on an interconnect pre/amp seperates and it doesn't take up any space. For 5000 bucks (I got a demo) it solved all my problems.

By the way, your 2nd second system is exactly the kind of thing I'm looking to get into right now. Tube, physically small, interesting accessories. If you've got any advice on where to start let me know. Take care.

Dan

Tbadder1 · « **Reply #8 on:** 4 Sep 2003, 12:59 pm »

Quote from: Guan

Tbadder: I echo Jay's sentiments

I also notice that you have Tyler Linbrook Monitors. Glad to know that I'm not the only one on AC who has a pair How do you like your speakers?

I love 'em! For 3300 brand new and seas components--man that's a no brainer! Plus with the great service. Ty is the best! Take care.

Dan

Tbadder1 · « **Reply #9 on:** 4 Sep 2003, 01:05 pm »

Quote from: Curt

Yes, it can go either way. A big factor is the loudspeakers used, most of the loudspeakers designed today seem to be 4 ohms with 4th order crossovers and only average efficency, this type of speaker can be a difficult load for a tube amp (a reasonably priced tube amp).

IMO 8 ohm loudspeakers are a better choice for both tube and SS amps as they create less distortions in the amplifier and often can yield a superior end result.

With todays loudspeakers and the cost of good powerful tube amps, your pro ...

Thanks Curt--that's the kind of explanation I was looking for. I wonder if speaker load shouldn't be the first thing one considers when starting from scratch. Take care

Dan

doug s. · « **Reply #10 on:** 4 Sep 2003, 01:38 pm »

i tink keith & curt have the answer between them. most folk dabbling w/toobs would rather try the toobed pre before the toobed amp - less intimidating.

then, it seems that excellent toobed pre's are more cost competitive with s/s pre's. excellent toobed amps, especially those that can drive many real-world speaker loads, are not generally as reasonable in cost as are excellent s/s amps...

doug s.

Curt · « **Reply #11 on:** 4 Sep 2003, 03:15 pm »

Dan,

When starting again... If you have the ability (read: Cash) to jump right in and buy fine speakers, and are lucky enough to know which ones you want, that is a good place to start.

IMO the speakers and the room have the most influence on the system's sound and the most money and thought should be spent here.

Once the speakers and room are in order you can better match the many source/pre/amp combo choices that will make the best music for you.

Speaker impedance and power handling tell you a lot about what amps you should be looking at.

Guess were always plotting, 2nd guessing, scheming, and dreaming

Curt · « **Reply #12 on:** 4 Sep 2003, 03:35 pm »

One more thing:

I'm not sure you can get the full effect of tubes in a preamp with a SS amp.

A tube power amp may show more tube flavor and it will even have that soft current clipping (instead of hard SS voltage clipping) which will keep things warm/soft even when pushed too hard.

That said, I'm still a SS guy as long as it doesn't sound harsh, gritty, or bright. I need detail 20-20K (well maybe 17+K) and powerful tight bass.

I do like all the harmonics that are in the recorded music (they are all there just as in the actual performance) and I want every one of them coming out my speakers but no more, nothing extra. I don't think I need the extra 2nd harmonics to make me happy. Well not today anyway.