[KKM]

I installed some regular HDMI wires through a wall for mounting a flat panel above the fireplace. I see that there are some wires being sold that say "for in-wall installation". What is the difference? Do I have to worry about installing wires behind the wall that aren't label as such?

Thanks

[Toka]

"In-wall" means it is safety rated...ie, won't give off noxious fumes if it burns. The actual wire itself isn't any more safe, I mean, its not like other wires get really hot or anything. But your insurance company will find/create any reason to deny a claim if need be, and if they determine you didn't have the appropriate wires, you may be SOL.

[zybar]

"In-wall" means it is safety rated...ie, won't give off noxious fumes if it burns. The actual wire itself isn't any more safe, I mean, its not like other wires get really hot or anything. But your insurance company will find/create any reason to deny a claim if need be, and if they determine you didn't have the appropriate wires, you may be SOL.

I wouldn't put anything that isn't approved for specifically for "in-wall" use into my walls due to insurance concerns.

While I don't think it will cause your house to burn down, I definitely don't want to give the insurance companies anything to possibly use to deny a claim.

George

[Wayner]

I wonder if you are legally required to have that wiring inspected as the NEC has put new rulings in place for <50 volt wiring (speakerwire, interconnect, CAT5, HDMI, ........)? Now you must be a "certified installer" of even antenna wire.

W

[samplesj]

As Toka and Zybar/George said why risk using non rated cable in the wall. 

However it is entirely possible that your existing cable is just fine.  Are you able to see any of the writing on the cable itself?  As long as it says something like CL2 or CL3 you are fine.  Who made it?  Perhaps you can ask them.

Wayner, not all areas require inspection for electrical work even (much less low voltage stuff).  Do you have some sort of reference to show mandatory inspection for LV?  Are you feeling protectionist today?

[KKM]

Thanks everyone for the info and concerns.

The cables that went through the wall are HDMI, HDMI 1.3a, RG6 cable wire, and a Monster XP speaker wire for the center speaker. Don't see any CL rating but both HDMI cables state "80 C and 30V". They were purchased from Monoprice.

Don't quite understand how the cables can be dangerous, none of the wires are exposed in the wall and the ends are factory terminated. It's in and out within 6 feet.

[ctviggen]

It's the fumes they are worried about.  I believe that 80C is a maximum temperature rating (not fire related).  Here's an article on wiring ratings:

Article

[samplesj]

Thanks everyone for the info and concerns.

The cables that went through the wall are HDMI, HDMI 1.3a, RG6 cable wire, and a Monster XP speaker wire for the center speaker. Don't see any CL rating but both HDMI cables state "80 C and 30V". They were purchased from Monoprice.

Don't quite understand how the cables can be dangerous, none of the wires are exposed in the wall and the ends are factory terminated. It's in and out within 6 feet.

As a couple of people have already said its the fumes that drive the concern.  That is why there is another even higher rating for plenium usage (think of an air duct).

The Monoprice HDMI may be fine depending on which one.  Was it the style with techflex or the bare wire?  I suspect if you ripped the techflex off it would be the same cable and would be in wall rated then.  I'm not about to destroy one of mine to check, but I'd be suprised if it wasn't the same.

I can't imaging that any RG6 coax wouldn't be in wall rated.

Was the monster cable you ran in the wall inside an outer shell?  Some of the monster speaker cable line is in wall rated and some isn't.  My HT is wired with a combo of 11/12 gauge inwall monster and 12 gauge inwall parts express stuff so I know they have some that is rated.

Assuming you've used open backed low voltage boxes then its trivial to fix the issue so why don't you.  Just tie a properly rated cable to the "bad" (unrated) cable and pull the bad one out.  If you've used normal electrical boxes (metal or plastic depending on local rules) then it'd be a bear to get the new cable threaded in though.

[Toka]

This article will provide likely more info than you would ever want:

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/inwallrating.htm

[Wayner]

A friend of mine who works for another friend of mine who owns a HIFI shop in our town had to get certified as a low voltage wire installer. He had to take a test to get his certification. All he did was antenna installs, satellite and in-wall speaker wiring for surround sound.

The next time I see him, I will get the whole story. I think the reason for certification is that low voltage wiring always ends up in areas where there is high voltage wires, i.e. good old 120 and 240. Well, people like to hang up pictures and stuff like that and......oops, I just put a nail through a 120 volt romex cable, hitting the hot but then the nail also hit some RG-6. Do you see where I coming from on this. Yes, most of us have common sence when it comes to wiring, but things can and do happen. Also, some high powered amplifiers are capable of killing people under the right conditions. These high current amps will run at fairly high voltages with plenty of push behind them. Now we have speaker wire in the walls..........
Can the amp fail and put goobs of voltage and current into the speaker wires/speakers. could a serious fault condition exist where injury could happen? Could it start a fire in the wall?

[samplesj]

A friend of mine who works for another friend of mine who owns a HIFI shop in our town had to get certified as a low voltage wire installer. He had to take a test to get his certification. All he did was antenna installs, satellite and in-wall speaker wiring for surround sound.

But there is a difference between professionals needing to be certified (or licensed) and a homeowner having to be.

Sure if I try to install electrical for someone else I'm going to need a license (or someone with a license to sign for me ), but around here legally I am totally free to do whatever I want to my own home's wiring.  While I'd agree you'd be a fool to mess with something like that unless you knew what you were doing, you don't have to do it for a living to know what you are doing.  The basics aren't that complicated.

That is more the point I was trying to make.  You were implying that he would have to have it inspected, but some areas don't require inspections.  You may in fact live in an area that does require such checking, but that doesn't mean we all do.  Likewise the fact that your friend needs to be certified doesn't mean that the OP does.

[Wayner]

WRONG!

If you do any wiring in your home (AC) there are zero statute of limitations with regards to electricity. If you sell your house that you did wiring in and something happened to the next owner because of your incorrect DIY wiring, you are liable.....PERIOD. If you don't believe me ask any state electrical inspector, anywhere in the United States about that one.

[Wayner]

Also, having a local state electrical inspector sign off on a correct and competent wiring job, relieves you of all liability. That is a great incentive to have all of your DIY wiring inspected, if you ask me.

[samplesj]

WRONG!

If you do any wiring in your home (AC) there are zero statute of limitations with regards to electricity. If you sell your house that you did wiring in and something happened to the next owner because of your incorrect DIY wiring, you are liable.....PERIOD. If you don't believe me ask any state electrical inspector, anywhere in the United States about that one.

This doesn't directly relate to what I just said.  I said that my area does NOT require inspection for AC even so I'd doubt it required it for LV.  I wasn't trying to divert the thread to AC DIY wiring, but using it to show how unlikely mandatory inspections nationwide for LV were.  Notice that while you claim liability risk, it doesn't say it isn't legal?  I can also pick examples where it isn't previous owners liable, but instead shifted because of the buyers due dillegence failure.

And implied in the above is again the thought that someone cannot do it right themselves.  If its done right then it really doesn't matter who does it.  FUD all you want, but running a circuit is just not that complicated.  I'm not saying that certain things that electricians deal with aren't complicated, but rather that there are significant parts that aren't and those happen to be what most DIYers are interested in.  If/when I add wind turbines and PV array you can be sure I'll have an electrician do the wiring, but for stuff like a new circuit for audio or switching an outlet to GFCI for a sw reef tank I'm going to do it myself.

Every thing you have posted has been scare tactics to make sure the OP didn't dare do anything himself.  Why are you acting so protectionist?

[Wayner]

If you live in the U.S., inspection is required. Ever heard of the National Electrical Code?

 aa

[contrarian]

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but there is more to putting wire in the walls other than fumes and low voltage.  The biggest concern is that the burning insulation/wire can act as a fuse and carry the fire rapidly throughout the house.

Just buy cable with the correct CL classification.

[Bob in St. Louis]

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but there is more to putting wire in the walls other than fumes and low voltage.  The biggest concern is that the burning insulation/wire can act as a fuse and carry the fire rapidly throughout the house.

Just buy cable with the correct CL classification.

Yup. I was wondering when this would be brought up. This is the reasoning I've heard as well.

Bob

[Wayner]

Hey,

I'm not putting up scare tactics at all, I have nothing to gain by that.

The fact is, I'm an industrial machine electrical designer. I get to figure out how to connect 208 volt 3-phase to motor drives, PLC's, Fuses, circuit breakers.............on and on and on. I get to see stuff during our safety trainings that would make most people freak-out. If you knew how many people die every year from electrocution, Arc Flash Explosions (dead shorts) and electrical fires in the U.S. it would make you sick. These people are professional people that have industrial accidents.....and they are not pretty at all. If you knew how many house fires were caused by incorrect wiring in the home that killed husbands, wives and children, that would make you sick. I have deep feelings for everyone at AC. We all share a common bond of music. Music is probably one of the only things mankind does kind to his fellow man. Yea, we argue about cables and fuses and CD players and turntables and speakers, but who gives a crap when some family is burnt up in a house fire. Anyone can wire their own house if they want with what ever they want. Hopefully, most will use knowledge from those in the know or use books as reference. I feel the need to express my concern within these blogs. Sometimes I do come off as a hard nose and I have been accused of being brutally honest. I will try to keep more to myself.