[Clay W]

Just curious, Chair Guy - in any representative time period, what's the ratio of time you spend listening to music and that spent modifying equipment?  Could it be that you've lost track of why you began tweaking to begin with?

[TheChairGuy]

Just curious, Chair Guy - in any representative time period, what's the ratio of time you spend listening to music and that spent modifying equipment?  Could it be that you've lost track of why you began tweaking to begin with?

Hell, I'm curious about the same thing sometimes, Clay    Now that I've experimented quite a bit the last few years, I am pretty satisfied with things now and don't tweek as much as I did even, a year ago.

Also, I'm 44 now - fact is, I'm losing my upper register hearing and things are blending nicer now.  Treble issues with CD playback in particular, of issues of that sort among various cartridges are beginning to not matter.  It's plain and simple fact that you lose hearing, no matter how I try to keep my blood pressure & cholesterol down and get semi-regular chiropractic adjustments, I'm / we're losing a race against time 

Hey - you gotta' try hard to find good reasons for aging...I'm a half-full kinda' guy 

Actually, my office is in my home and my hours are erratic....I have customers and factories worldwide making my day fairly long.  But, I can insert long periods of goof off minutes or hours within most days to tweek or what not. 

My commute is about 45 seconds at 7:00AM or so when I normally start.....leaves lots of time to listen to music (not very critically as I listen to music all day when I'm not traveling, but rarely care to listen critically later in the day).  But, because I listen so much to my system, a change is noticed quite easily as I have abundant time to hear it.

[Lyndon]

The Chair Guy said:

Also, I'm 44 now - fact is, I'm losing my upper register hearing and things are blending nicer now.  Treble issues with CD playback in particular, of issues of that sort among various cartridges are beginning to not matter.  It's plain and simple fact that you lose hearing, no matter how I try to keep my blood pressure & cholesterol down and get semi-regular chiropractic adjustments, I'm / we're losing a race against time  Sad

And he has a point well made.  HiFi fans "go into and out" of playing, selling, tweaking their gear.  A good friend of mine has sold all his vinyl gear, most of his amps, preamps, etc.  And is quite happy with his 41hZ
Amp 6, iPod base, Squeezebox and Hard Drive system.  And this is a guy who designed and built his own tube dac.

I myself, need to simplify and "clean out the garage" of gear I am not using.  I have a perfectly good, less than 10 hours since factory refurbished Adcom 4300 amp that has not been hooked up for two years, replaced by my diy Pass Aleph 3, and in the main system, a diy Krell KSA-50 MkII.  Frankly, I don't know how Scott F. and LoneWolf keep all that gear running and stored.  I'm even worse with bicycles.  I must have about 8 bikes in the garage.  Must...wean...the...herd.

Back to tt's, Chair Guy, if what a previous poster has said, that JVC no longer has a DD in current production, what year is yours, and did you pick it up on eprey?

[BobRex]

I've let my subscription to Stereopile run out. I'm sick of the scheme. Let's have manufacturers buy ads in our stupid magazine, then we do reviews giving every review a total thumbs up on them and then the manufacturers buy more ads. Then once a year we pile up a "recommended components" list of everyting we reviewed (of course all were great) and give them a grade a,b or c (of course even the "c" grade is damn good). It's like alcoholics making beer and then grading which one is better and of course if your an alcoholic, even the shittiest beer is GREAT!

The editors at Stereopile are indeed elitist snobs.

This "elitist snob" commentary is really getting tiring.  Wayner, do you realize that the magazines that used to deal with the "less elite" equipment (High Fidelity, Audio, Stereo Review) are all gone?  Did you support them or were you too busy whining about the elitist attitudes of Stereophile and TAS?
Both Stereophile and TAS were started based on the premise that there was exceptional equipment out there - equipment that either got short shrift at the major mags BECAUSE they didn't advertise! (kinda ironic, huh?), or equipment that was improperly reviewed because the major reviewers stopped listening and went solely by measurements. 

Not everything that has been reviewed makes it to the recommended list, but you knew that didn't you?

And please, stop crying wolf about advertising!  Atkinson has stated many times that there is a Chinese wall between advertising and editorial departments.  If you have proof to the contrary, then submit the proof and formally call JA out.  Otherwise, shut up!

BTW - there are enough believable complaints about TAS that I'd believe advertising does influence editorial, but you're not complaining about them.

[TheChairGuy]

Back to tt's, Chair Guy, if what a previous poster has said, that JVC no longer has a DD in current production, what year is yours, and did you pick it up on eprey?

Between 1979 and 1985 were when JVC made their best DD tables.  Anything with either electronic or oil damped arms are the pick of the litter.  With damping, you have at least a shot of hearing good analog from a turntable (by no means is it imperative or the only thing that will allow you to enjoy the music).

I wouldn't overlook the Denon decks of that era either - I just don't know their lineup and where their 'sweet spots' are.  They typically sell for a lot more than the JVC's as they look nicer and have a better reputation for sound (whether or not true, I don't know)

I bought mine for $100 on ebay...complete with a working example of an ADC XLM Mk. III Improved cartridge    Except for a busted arm lift mechanism and cracked cover, it was a great deal.

John

[doug s.]

there's several direct drive decks in present production.  but, you better have a big wallet.     grand prix audio, continuum, brinkmann, teres are a few.  likely there's other obscure hi-end decks that i am unaware of...

doug s.

Probably because there are only 2 direct-drive tables I know of in production... The Technics and the Denon. Both fine tables. Definitely not "A" list though.

I think the Technics has plenty of potential and is a fantastic value considering that and the price of a stock model. Would require a few mods to be a solid "C" or "B" list...

Not knocking it at all. I'm an extremely satisfied 1200 owner and I think it absolutely kills the Regas IN IT'S PRICE RANGE (plays at the right speed and everything... LOL). First table I've owned with the resolution necessary to set the tonearm EXACTLY right without too much fussing. Once set... it stays set... and there's a little added warmth that may be undesirable in the best systems, but seems to mask minor flaws a little in more modest setups.

[royphil345]

likely there's other obscure hi-end decks that i am unaware of...

doug s.

I doubt it... LOL   I've never heard of these. Very interesting... Thanks!!! I stand corrected.  None of these made class "A"?...

[macrojack]

Stereophile seems to use a narrow scope. 6moons is able to find many products to review that rarely find their way into Stereophile. From where I sit, S-phile appears to be a closed society of interfeeding, self-satisfied elites. And many manufacturers keep their distance for fear of being used as inferiors in comparisons with the favored lines.
I use a Technics Direct Drive that competes nicely with anything else available. Whether or not it is the best I cannot say. I'm sure, however, that it provides more bang for the buck than anything selling for 5 figures or more. That's it in my avatar.

[doug s.]

none made class a?  did they spend money on any s'phile ads?      teres has been discussed here on this forum frequently.

doug s.

likely there's other obscure hi-end decks that i am unaware of...

doug s.

I doubt it... LOL   I've never heard of these. Very interesting... Thanks!!! I stand corrected.  None of these made class "A"?...

[doug s.]

yup, that's a killer turntable for sure.  hard to beat at its present used prices.  (which aren't exactly cheap, btw...)

doug s.

Stereophile seems to use a narrow scope. 6moons is able to find many products to review that rarely find their way into Stereophile. From where I sit, S-phile appears to be a closed society of interfeeding, self-satisfied elites. And many manufacturers keep their distance for fear of being used as inferiors in comparisons with the favored lines.
I use a Technics Direct Drive that competes nicely with anything else available. Whether or not it is the best I cannot say. I'm sure, however, that it provides more bang for the buck than anything selling for 5 figures or more. That's it in my avatar.

[Clay W]

As one who has subscribed, off and on, to Stereophile since the magazine came out of New Mexico and was the size of a book of crossword puzzles, I've always thought the list of recommended components was a useless waste of pages which ought to have been devoted to reviews of music or equipment.  To begin with, nothing appears on any given list unless it was reviewed recently.  Gotta get rid of that old Mac stuff - it isn't listed at all. 

What good are the ratings anyway?  Even if you were naive enough to have something like "all class A" as a goal for your system, the listings offer no clue to component compatibility.  It wouldn't be difficult to spend lots of money putting together some highly rated components that would sound terrible together.

Apart from fodder for those who like to play the "mine's bigger than yours" game, those listings and ratings are of absolutely no value.

Back to the DD turntable issue.  There's more than one way to skin a cat.  Over many years I've had belt drives, direct drives, and even a linear tracker.  They all made me happy at one time or another.  My present TT (not on the list now, never was higher than B) may be my last one - I'm pretty old and have a fondness for set it and forget it.

I think there are a couple of rules that all of us need to remember: 1) Never spend more on gear than you have on music, and 2)  If it sounds good to you, it is good.

[lazydays]

reasonable persons will disagree...     personally, i would rather use a stock sl1200 than a stock rega pl25 - ymmv...

doug s.

ymmv, but i would certainly choose the technics sl1200 over the similarly priced rega's or used stock linn's.  and, i'd choose the kabusa modded sl1200 over any rega or linn.

doug s.

I have no idea what a KAB SL1200 cost, but if it's in the $700 a used Rega PL25 will eat it up. (assuming it's got the RB 600 tonearm) A well kept Linn will eat up the Rega as well.
gary

well I've owned two SL 1200's and my brother inlaw still uses one. Have never owned a Rega, but have been around them enouth to know that it's a "no contest". The Rega is a better T.T.
gary

[doug s.]

that's really funny - i have been around both, too.  enough to know that the sl1200 is a better turntable.  so, what does it all mean?   

doug s.

reasonable persons will disagree...     personally, i would rather use a stock sl1200 than a stock rega pl25 - ymmv...

doug s.

ymmv, but i would certainly choose the technics sl1200 over the similarly priced rega's or used stock linn's.  and, i'd choose the kabusa modded sl1200 over any rega or linn.

doug s.

I have no idea what a KAB SL1200 cost, but if it's in the $700 a used Rega PL25 will eat it up. (assuming it's got the RB 600 tonearm) A well kept Linn will eat up the Rega as well.
gary

well I've owned two SL 1200's and my brother inlaw still uses one. Have never owned a Rega, but have been around them enouth to know that it's a "no contest". The Rega is a better T.T.
gary

[WEEZ]

Sheesh.....a pissing contest in the vinyl circle? Oh,... No,...

Let's invite the digital guys in on it and see what they have to say..

Not..

WEEZ

[Wayner]

Hey Bobrex,

I let my TAS run out along time ago. Golden Ears with zero specs just doesn't cut it for me. No, I don't like bitching about the magazines, but they should have a goal other then hood-winking the public at large. One minute they will make a claim that there isn't a higher fi than the latest CD player for 10k. Then the next issue will deal with the wonderful sound of Ipods. I just can't take it no more! It would be like Besst Bluy selling McIntosh or Krell equipment next to $149 dollar Sony receivers. Yes, there is a market for both, but that guy usually is not the same person. Auddio kiing in the Minnesota area tried to sell high, mid and low fi to reach all of the consumers a few years ago. They are now all but vanished. Most "normal" people wouldn't spend as much money on an entire system as most of us would on one component here on AC. We have different expectations. Not that having a $149 Sony receiver is bad, we all had to start somewhere.

 

[Lyndon]

Yes,
The discussion of the mags can be never ending, just like cable talk.  I let my TAS subscription go two years ago as well.  I just take it for "fun reading" these days.  And I enjoy all of them, as well as the internet 'zines.  I am envious of you guys who are attending the Rocky Mountain Audio event. Now that is my kind of event. Back to direct drive turntables.  As I mentioned earlier, Charles Hansen of Ayre mentioned 3 DD tt's that he felt were some of the best ever:
a) The Rockport.

b) The new Grand Prix Audio.

c) The Kenwood L-07D.

I didn't know the Rockport was direct drive.  But both the price level of A and B are pretty much out of the range of most audio fans.  The musical sound a tt produces should be paramount, but looks and esthetics do not have to be ignored, as TT's have been some of the finest audio jewelry ever. Wayner is right that those rebuilt Empire TT's are a thing of beauty. You guys who have bought those Teres turntables have what looks like works of art.  But I would love to "sit in" at someone's system and have an A/B listening session of perhaps that KAB Technics, the JVC of Chair Guy's, and the Rega PL25 as a belt drive option.  I know, I know there would be all kinds of factors to consider, with cartridges, etc. but I think it would be fun, number one, and perhaps illuminating to my ears what the differences in sound may be...you can bet Scott F. in St. Louis has heard a lot of turntables, and he sure seems to be enjoying his
Squeezebox...

[BobRex]

Hey Bobrex,

I let my TAS run out along time ago. Golden Ears with zero specs just doesn't cut it for me. No, I don't like bitching about the magazines, but they should have a goal other then hood-winking the public at large. One minute they will make a claim that there isn't a higher fi than the latest CD player for 10k. Then the next issue will deal with the wonderful sound of Ipods. I just can't take it no more! It would be like Besst Bluy selling McIntosh or Krell equipment next to $149 dollar Sony receivers. Yes, there is a market for both, but that guy usually is not the same person. Auddio kiing in the Minnesota area tried to sell high, mid and low fi to reach all of the consumers a few years ago. They are now all but vanished. Most "normal" people wouldn't spend as much money on an entire system as most of us would on one component here on AC. We have different expectations. Not that having a $149 Sony receiver is bad, we all had to start somewhere.

 

You are really confusing me.  First you complain that Sphile is a bunch of "elitist snobs", now you are complaining that they cover the entire spectrum from 10K CD players to Ipods.  WTF!!!!  What do you want??  Your own statements show that you recognize the niche that audiophiles fall into, yet you rail at magazines that accommodate all facets of that niche!

How exactly are they hoodwinking the public?  Just because they favorably review a 10K CD player?  Have you heard the player???  Maybe, just maybe it really is the best player the reviewer has heard.  Any maybe next month another reviewer will hear a cheaper player that he (I'm safe here, Sphile doesn't have any female reviewers) feels is the best he heard ... ad infinitum. 

Okay, so aside from the need to be your whipping boy, what are your expectations for a magazine?  And, perhaps more importantly, what general circulation magazine fulfills your expectations?

[Clay W]

[Okay, so aside from the need to be your whipping boy, what are your expectations for a magazine?  And, perhaps more importantly, what general circulation magazine fulfills your expectations?
[/quote]

I think that's a good question, BobRex, and although this may be straying too far from the original topic, I'll take a shot at it. 

Tossing aside the absurd "elitist snob" stuff, I think it's reasonable for those of us invested/involved in our hobby to have some expectations regarding Sphile and TAS.  First on my list is that the mag play a strong role in the perpetuation of high end audio.   It isn't sufficient for them to offer reviews and articles that please people like me who've been involved pretty deeply for more than forty years.  We're gonna die off.  Kids need to be lured, whatever way they can be, into appreciation of something better than MP3 and stock iPod earbuds.  The mags who review equipment need to seek out and cover good entry level equipment that provides such a lure whether from traditional sources or computer based systems.  Lately, Harley does a much better job of shouldering that responsibility than does Atkinson.  Several good sounding systems were recently featured in TAS starting at under $1K.

In that same vein, I look for the addition of contributors who represent the coming generation of audio nuts.  Much as I've enjoyed contributions from the likes of Wes Phillips, Art Dudley, and Mike Fremer, they, like me are getting a little long in the tooth.  New blood is needed at Sphile - that is unless Primedia is unable to get the right price for the mag and it just goes away.

Secondly, I expect the mags to offer good coverage of music as well as gear.  Here again, TAS is running way ahead of Sphile in every musical genre.  This comes as somewhat surprizing to me as Atkinson makes claims to being an active musician and numbers on his staff of contributors several others who make the same claim.  Perhaps that is the weakness - too much time spent on their obscure performances and recording ventures and too little attention paid to the recordings which are out there for those of us who want to buy them.  Personal ego trips aren't a substitute for covering good new music.

I'd also like to be able to read through an audio mag without running into political commentary - whether I agree with it or not.  God knows there's more than enough of that stuff, if you want it, almost everywhere else.

Those are some reasons why I've recently cancelled my Sphile subscription and kept my TAS active.  Harley isn't doing a perfect job by any means, but his mag gets closer to what I want than anything else out there at this time.

[Russell Dawkins]

My first TT was my favorite.  A Perpetuum Ebner 2020 in a store display case, very rare. 

Wow! That was my first good turntable, too, with a Shure M91 ED (I think). Was it rim drive or belt? This is the first time since 1971 that I've seen/heard this TT mentioned.

I remember hearing a Japanese demo record on it that sounded stunning, as far as bass and especially drum sound went. It was jazz, badly played indeed, but the sound!! I don't think I've heard anything close for a drumkit sound since, especially kick drum. I think it was a JVC or Denon recording.

[TheChairGuy]

Too, too much Musical Fidelity in Stereophile....way over-the-top in coverage 

Perhaps they deserve the attention, but it seems to take up space that could be devoted to many others.

TAS does seem more relevant, more often, these days.  I remember it quite the opposite 10+ years ago, tho.