Upgrading/replacing Sansui 317 caps

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Ferdi

Upgrading/replacing Sansui 317 caps
« on: 31 Aug 2003, 09:46 pm »
Hi, I started my leave and have some time to burn on hobby projects. I took the top off of my Sansui 317 to take a peek inside. Apart from a reasonable amount of dust, I found some goo around some of the larger caps. Seems to me that at least some need to be replaced.

I am not sure of this but the amp is about 20 years old so if these are all original, replacement sounds reasonable.

I found some different caps in there:

2 physically quite large 50V 10 000µF ELNA caps marked CE69W(p) NC
6 smaller 50V 470µF some made by ELNA, some by Nichicon. These were the ones with the goo around the base.
Then a number of different ones with values between 1 and 220µF and rated between 6.3 and 50V.

When I listened to this little integrated as a pre (see my other post from a few weeks ago), I already found quite a few problems in the sound. Maybe the state of some of these caps has some influence here.

I have now decided to try and replace the caps. Then things started getting difficult:
- What caps should I use for the replacement? Should I try and find exact 1 on 1 replacements or try for an upgrade?
- If I go the upgrade route, what caps should I use where? I checked on the RS website for a replacement for the large ELNA and found about 20 different types that could all be suitable (as far as I know).

Any help is appreciated. Very helpful would be:
- input from those who have worked on this amp before. (Dejan?)
- Cap recommendations
- A suggestion which caps to replace

thanks,

Ferdi

DVV

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Re: Upgrading/replacing Sansui 317 caps
« Reply #1 on: 31 Aug 2003, 10:13 pm »
Quote from: Ferdi
Hi, I started my leave and have some time to burn on hobby projects. I took the top off of my Sansui 317 to take a peek inside. Apart from a reasonable amount of dust, I found some goo around some of the larger caps. Seems to me that at least some need to be replaced.

I am not sure of this but the amp is about 20 years old so if these are all original, replacement sounds reasonable.

I found some different caps in there:

2 physically quite large 50V 10 000µF ELNA caps marked CE69W(p) NC
6 smaller 5 ...


Well Ferdi, I see you are in for some good times.

Whether you should upgrade or not I don't know, that depends on what you want to end up with.

You are quite right in saying I messed around with that particular model, that was quite a few years back. At the time, its owner had its service manual, so looking up the action was easy. I did change all lectrolytic caps, some transistors and in particular, the output stage. I used Motorola's MJ 15022/15023 250W devices, closely matched, instead of the original 100W devices, but I also changed the drivers.

As for the capacitors, the amount of work to change them is such that in my view, it's not really worth it unless you upgrade them. That's what I did, one by one. Overall, I used caps from Fischer&Tausche and Siemens, which you can look up at http://www.buerklin.de (in German only) and possibly http://www.conrad.de (in German, but also available in English).

There was improvement, to be sure, but don't hope for a classy, let alone high end amp in the end. The 317 was an economy model, so no matter what you do, in the end you will be limited by the overall platform and design. Taking it a step further and changing at least some of the critical resistors to quality 0.1% metal film ones will improve matters a little more, but about the best you can hope for is a really good commercial quality amp. Never an audiophile one.

Cheers,
DVV

Ferdi

Upgrading/replacing Sansui 317 caps
« Reply #2 on: 31 Aug 2003, 10:37 pm »
Hi Dejan, thanks for your answers.

I never expected the amp to do anything more than it was designed for but believe it is now performing worse than it should and would like to correct that.

I will follow your suggestions for caps and may be back then.

Thanks so far.

btw, don't you sleep?

DVV

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Upgrading/replacing Sansui 317 caps
« Reply #3 on: 1 Sep 2003, 06:33 am »
Quote from: Ferdi
Hi Dejan, thanks for your answers.

I never expected the amp to do anything more than it was designed for but believe it is now performing worse than it should and would like to correct that.

I will follow your suggestions for caps and may be back then.

Thanks so far.

btw, don't you sleep?


Sometimes. :lol:

Cheers,
DVV

Ferdi

Upgrading/replacing Sansui 317 caps
« Reply #4 on: 1 Sep 2003, 08:54 am »
OH, now I remember Transsylvania, wasn't that in your neck of the woods? :mrgreen:  :lol:

DVV

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Upgrading/replacing Sansui 317 caps
« Reply #5 on: 1 Sep 2003, 01:27 pm »
Quote from: Ferdi
OH, now I remember Transsylvania, wasn't that in your neck of the woods? :mrgreen:  :lol:


Actually, about 500 kilometers to the north-east/east of me.

But you've heard of Godzilla? I'm not quite that big, but I look just as good. :mrgreen:

Cheers,
DVV

Ferdi

Upgrading/replacing Sansui 317 caps
« Reply #6 on: 1 Sep 2003, 02:27 pm »
Horrible movie but a very pretty monster.  :mrgreen: