[phoenix_rising]

Hi All,

Has anyone received a set of TimePiece Mini's yet and are willing to share how they sound. I am considering purchasing a pair and would like to know what another users experience of the speakers is. I really wanted the TimePiece 3.0 but they are out of my budget range. I saw in the specs that the crosover is different and I would also be interested in finding out how low it crosses as well if anyone knows.

Thanks

[muj]

I  have these on order...(just problems with the payment..go figure) , anyways will compare these with the Zu Tones






Hey Bob

[phoenix_rising]

I  have these on order...(just problems with the payment..go figure) , anyways will compare these with the Zu Tones


Hey Bob

Great.  Can't wait to hear your opinion.

[groovybassist]

I've ordered a pair, but haven't received them yet or heard when they'll be shipped.  Bob told me my order was second in line, so I should be on the early end of folks that get them.  I'll post some info when they arrive and I've got them hooked up.

-Mike

[Albireo]

Also put in my order couple weeks back but I'm being realistic on delivery times . Told Bob I may be moving to the UK in the near future so hopefully that bumps me up the line a little. I once owned the Nuforce S-9, and that experience is why I went with the Minis sight unseen.

P.S. As for why I no longer own the S-9, two reasons: financial difficulties, and to a lesser extent, they really deserved a bigger room (e.g. I had to put them right up against the front wall). It was terrible seller's remorse: I remember giving auditions for local people and grimacing about having to sell them, but you gotta do what you gotta do. God they were gorgeous-sounding though, hope the Minis will give me the same taste but in a smaller package. Then I can add an Infra-Wave, or two ....

[Double Ugly]

...hope the Minis will give me the same taste but in a smaller package. Then I can add an Infra-Wave, or two ....

Based on my experience with SP Technology speakers, I'm confident the performance of a Timepiece Mini/Infra-Wave sub pairing will be shocking, especially given the cost.  In fact, forget the cost; it's going to shock, period.

Thing is, you're getting most of the Timepiece's performance (a speaker with which I am intimately familiar) sans the lowest octave or so.  Now add the Infra-Wave to the equation and you have the separate-sub equivalent of the best bass on the planet (that of the Revelations) and a -3dB point a full 10 Hz below the Timepieces! 

IMHO, the quality of Bob's T-line must be heard to be believed, and with a 19Hz reach and a 12dB/octave slope, you'll never again have to wonder how a pipe organ would sound in your room.

Get a couple more Minis - maybe a third for a center channel if you like/need - and you'll have a multi-channel/HT set-up rivaling systems priced well into 5 digits.  If you REALLY want to challenge the quality of your windows, walls and foundation, get two Infra-Waves and have a nut! 

'Course, all this is pure speculation on my part, and time will tell whether I'm right or off my rocker.  Regardless, I'm anxious to hear from the first person to have such a set-up, assuming it isn't me. 

[lonewolfny42]

Hey Bob....

Can we get a progress report on the Mini TP's.....thanks.

                        Chris

[phoenix_rising]

...hope the Minis will give me the same taste but in a smaller package. Then I can add an Infra-Wave, or two ....

Based on my experience with SP Technology speakers, I'm confident the performance of a Timepiece Mini/Infra-Wave sub pairing will be shocking, especially given the cost.  In fact, forget the cost; it's going to shock, period.

Thing is, you're getting most of the Timepiece's performance (a speaker with which I am intimately familiar) sans the lowest octave or so.  Now add the Infra-Wave to the equation and you have the separate-sub equivalent of the best bass on the planet (that of the Revelations) and a -3dB point a full 10 Hz below the Timepieces! 

IMHO, the quality of Bob's T-line must be heard to be believed, and with a 19Hz reach and a 12dB/octave slope, you'll never again have to wonder how a pipe organ would sound in your room.

Get a couple more Minis - maybe a third for a center channel if you like/need - and you'll have a multi-channel/HT set-up rivaling systems priced well into 5 digits.  If you REALLY want to challenge the quality of your windows, walls and foundation, get two Infra-Waves and have a nut! 

'Course, all this is pure speculation on my part, and time will tell whether I'm right or off my rocker.  Regardless, I'm anxious to hear from the first person to have such a set-up, assuming it isn't me. 

Hi Double Ugly,

Your avatar is brilliant. Hope what you say is true I am in teh proces of ordering some mini's. I am hoping the crossover is still 600hz even with the reduced size waveguide.

cheers

[Albireo]

Hope what you say is true I am in teh proces of ordering some mini's. I am hoping the crossover is still 600hz even with the reduced size waveguide.

Better order them quick, the line is getting long! Also, I'm willing to bet my left kidney that the crossover is going to be strictly between the TP's 600Hz and the S-9's 1.25kHz. Given that the diameter and depth of the Mini's waveguide is the same as that of the S-9, I'd say closer to 1kHz. But like you I also hope that Bob will be able to work some electronic voodoo magic to minimize the Mini's XO frequency, even at the expense of delaying production. And this coming from a guy who went from five pairs of speakers to ZERO speakers a couple weeks ago, I don't think that's happened to me since getting into this hobby ....

[JP78]

i thought the timepiece crossover had been bumped up from 600Hz?

[ooheadsoo]

I hope Bob comes to answer, but I think the TP xover is around 650hz or so, and I could swear that I read that the mini's crossover is around 1khz but I can't find that post for the life of me.

I also have word that the tweeter in the TP and mini is a great match...

[Double Ugly]

Hi Double Ugly,

Your avatar is brilliant.

Hi, pr.

Thanks!  I like him! 

Hope what you say is true I am in teh proces of ordering some mini's.

Congrats!  I've no way of knowing for sure, but as I said above, if experience counts for anything at all, the Mini will prove an exceptional speaker.

Are you planning to order an Infra-Wave as well?  Personally, *that's* the combo I'm anxious to hear about.

I am hoping the crossover is still 600hz even with the reduced size waveguide.

The smaller waveguide is precisely why I believe you can expect a crossover 'round about 1kHz.  I suppose it isn't inconceivable that Bob might find a way to get it lower, but I wouldn't get my hopes up.

Even so, I doubt you'll be disappointed.

Also, I'm willing to bet my left kidney that the crossover is going to be strictly between the TP's 600Hz and the S-9's 1.25kHz. Given that the diameter and depth of the Mini's waveguide is the same as that of the S-9, I'd say closer to 1kHz.

From what little I know, I'd say you're right.

Regardless, given their current black market value, I hope no one takes you up on the kidney bet. 

i thought the timepiece crossover had been bumped up from 600Hz?

Nope, it's still rock steady @ 600Hz, and that's straight from the horse's... errr... designer's mouth. 

I hope Bob comes to answer, but I think the TP xover is around 650hz or so, and I could swear that I read that the mini's crossover is around 1khz but I can't find that post for the life of me.

The latter is accurate IMO, but see above re: the Timepiece's crossover frequency.

[opnly bafld]

I e-mailed Bob last Thursday, he said a vendor had some trouble and didn't fill an order.
Bob was planning on doing the work in house until his supplier could get back up to speed.
He hoped they could start building the Mini's this week, but since they are a new design he wasn't sure of a completion time.

The original x-o was at @1k, not sure if it has changed any.

DU,
Do you know the price of the Infra-wave?

Thanks,
Lin

[Duke]

While I don't know the details of the Mini, let me just comment that there are some very valid acoustic reasons why a designer of a waveguide tweeter/direct radiator woofer system wouldn't want to push the crossover frequency too low.

You see, part of the coherence of such a design arises from its minimal radiation pattern discrepancy in the crossover region.  With most two-way speakers, the tweeter's pattern is much, much wider than the woofer's in the crossover region - which means that the on-axis response and the power response cannot both be "flat" at the same time.  But with a waveguide to control the tweeter's pattern and keep it within a certain angle, there is often little if any radiation pattern discrepancy in the crossover region so there is no significant spectral discrepancy between the direct and reverberant sound.  This is a characteristic of live music that few loudspeakers can emulate.

However if you push the crossover frequency too low, the waveguide loses the ability to control the radiation pattern because it is simply too small for the wavelengths involved, and the radiation pattern consistency in the crossover region is compromised.

Duke

[groovybassist]

Lin:

That's a bummer!  When I first ordered mine (I was the second person to order and pay for them), Bob indicated 4-6 weeks for delivery once production started on August 1st.  I was hoping they'd be shipped soon since we're at 5 weeks now, but it sounds from your posting like shipping is several weeks away at least.  What a drag...

Bob:  Any updates on the Mini timeline???  I'm sure you're busy, but we'd appreciate it.

-Mike

[Christof]

Hi All,

Has anyone received a set of TimePiece Mini's yet and are willing to share how they sound. I am considering purchasing a pair and would like to know what another users experience of the speakers is. I really wanted the TimePiece 3.0 but they are out of my budget range. I saw in the specs that the crosover is different and I would also be interested in finding out how low it crosses as well if anyone knows.

Thanks

I've got the day off Thursday so I might go pay the man a visit and see what the hype is all about.   If there is a pair of Mini's in the house I'll try to get a listen and report back, that is if Bob does not take me hostage and throw a spray gun in my hand

[Vapor Audio]

While I don't know the details of the Mini, let me just comment that there are some very valid acoustic reasons why a designer of a waveguide tweeter/direct radiator woofer system wouldn't want to push the crossover frequency too low.

You see, part of the coherence of such a design arises from its minimal radiation pattern discrepancy in the crossover region.  With most two-way speakers, the tweeter's pattern is much, much wider than the woofer's in the crossover region - which means that the on-axis response and the power response cannot both be "flat" at the same time.  But with a waveguide to control the tweeter's pattern and keep it within a certain angle, there is often little if any radiation pattern discrepancy in the crossover region so there is no significant spectral discrepancy between the direct and reverberant sound.  This is a characteristic of live music that few loudspeakers can emulate.

However if you push the crossover frequency too low, the waveguide loses the ability to control the radiation pattern because it is simply too small for the wavelengths involved, and the radiation pattern consistency in the crossover region is compromised.

Duke

If the waveguide is too small, the wave simply propogates similar to a flat baffle, which isn't a problem.  Since the woofer will have a wide and even dispersion pattern at low (600hz or so) frequencies, they'll match up just fine in the crossover region.  There are far more benefits from being able to push the tweeter low, and very few if any in taking the woofer higher ... especially an aluminum coned woofer.

[Duke]

To TurboFC3S,

Even a 6.5" woofer is nowhere near omnidirectional at 600 Hz - the output at 60 degrees off axis is already down a good 6-9 dB or so (depending on cone stiffness and geometry - a stiff cone will beam more than a flexible one).  In contrast, an uncontrolled tweeter would be omnidirectional at that frequency. 

Now what I don't know is how much residual pattern control a too-small waveguide would still have.   I suspect that the pattern discrepancy would still not be nearly as bad as if no waveguide were present. 

You are correct that breakup behavior of the woofer cone has to be taken into account, however SP Tech is crossing over their metal cone woofers far below the first breakup mode so a couple hundred Hz this way or that probably doesn't matter from a cone breakup standpoint.  But I could be wrong.

Just for the record I also design waveguide tweeter/direct radiator woofer loudspeakers, and admire Bob Smith's designs a great deal.  If I didn't build my own, I'd be a dealer for him.  He and I have  chosen slightly different trade-offs in a couple of areas, but conceptually we're barking up exactly the same tree - just from slightly different angles.  I am quite confident that Bob has taken everything into account in choosing his crossover points, so if they're a few hundred Hz higher than the lowest physically possible I'm sure it's with good reason.

Duke

[Double Ugly]

I e-mailed Bob last Thursday, he said a vendor had some trouble and didn't fill an order.

I heard that, too. 

DU,
Do you know the price of the Infra-wave?

Thanks,
Lin

It was $1500 for the unpowered version as of last March (see here).

That may still be the case, but you'll need to check with Bob.

This part of the post removed; it was nonsense.

[Duke]

Geeze, Double - where in the world did I take a swipe at Bob?

In response to someone saying that they hoped the crossover of the Mini was down at 600 Hz, I posted that that there may well be valid reasons for it being higher.  In other words, if it turns out that Bob did use a higher crossover, I was defending him in advance!

Please tell me what I said that you interpreted as a "swipe" at Bob.

Thanks,

Duke