LS/9 cabinet plans

tberd · « **on:** 2 Sep 2007, 08:05 am »

Danny ,

are the LS/9 cabinet plans ready ? I would like to know how much trouble if any these are to build .

Please include any extra parts like damping materials ect...

When will the LS/9 kit be ready on your web site for purchase ?

tberd

Danny Richie · « **Reply #1 on:** 3 Sep 2007, 02:36 am »

Quote

are the LS/9 cabinet plans ready ?

Sure and you can view them from here: http://www.gr-research.com/pdf/LS-9%20box.pdf

Quote

Please include any extra parts like damping materials ect...

The kit includes everything except the wood and damping material. 8 sheets of No Rez is recommended. Adding additional poly fill or fiberglass insolation is also a must.

Quote

When will the LS/9 kit be ready on your web site for purchase ?

It is ready and available right now. I am not sure when or if it will be available on the web site. The majority of the pairs sold are fully assembled and have been ordered through Custom Concepts or AV123. Most people in this price range don't want a kit. They want a fully assembled speaker. I am debating whether to make these available as kits for a short time and allow everyone that wants them as a kit to get them then no longer make them available in kit form.

If you want a pair then I would order them soon.

tberd · « **Reply #2 on:** 4 Sep 2007, 04:43 pm »

Danny ,

is it a fair statement to say you are abandoning the LS/6 and 9 projects you created ? Reading your response doesn't leave potential buyers like myself feeling ok about purchasing this kit . I for one would have them listed on my web site . Tons of pictures and lots of details .

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't the mid bass drivers proprietary to the LS/6 and 9 models ? What would a potential buyer do say in two years about replacement drivers ? After you've moved on to a new project lets say ? Say 5 years when everyones forgetten the name LS/9 ?

Also the Neo tweeters . Weren't these made specifically for this LS project ? I can't see you sitting on a thousand replacement drivers . Not cost effective at all .

What would a buyer do ? Call you up and place an order for replacement drivers . Wait one year for the factory to make them ? After following all the LS postings for going on 2 years now , seems like nothing moves with a purpose .

tberd

Danny Richie · « **Reply #3 on:** 4 Sep 2007, 05:11 pm »

Quote

is it a fair statement to say you are abandoning the LS/6 and 9 projects you created ?

Not at all.

Quote

I for one would have them listed on my web site . Tons of pictures and lots of details .

I am still considering it but to be honest most people wanting a speaker of this caliber aren't wanting a kit. I have AV123 offering them fully assembled and I have a new company interested in offering it as a commercial speaker in a more upscale and over the top version.

I will still be stocking everything involved in this speakers, all drivers, parts, ports, etc. I just have to ask myself do I still offer them as a kit for the 6 or 7 people a year to build them as a kit or sell the same parts, drivers, etc to a couple of companies that are making them a commercial product and sell 30 or 40 units a year to this company, plus several hundred units that will be sold per year through AV123. AV123 already has pre-order for over 60 pairs, BTW. The question is do the kits undermine the value being offered by the other companies involved?

Quote

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't the mid bass drivers proprietary to the LS/6 and 9 models ? What would a potential buyer do say in two years about replacement drivers ? After you've moved on to a new project lets say ? Say 5 years when everyones forgetten the name LS/9 ?

No worries here at all. I always stock and service anything I sell or have sold.

Quote

Also the Neo tweeters . Weren't these made specifically for this LS project ? I can't see you sitting on a thousand replacement drivers . Not cost effective at all .

Yep, all of these were custom built for me specifically for this project. They won't be setting on a shelf. If I am moving 3 to 4 thousand a year to this new company and AV123 it will be no problem to service any that were bought by initial customers building a kit.

Quote

What would a buyer do ? Call you up and place an order for replacement drivers . Wait one year for the factory to make them ? After following all the LS postings for going on 2 years now , seems like nothing moves with a purpose .

Everything moves with a purpose.

Originally these were only to be offered as kits. All of those who have been waiting for the arrival and release will have ample opportunity to purchase them as a kit. My first obligation is to these customers.

I just think that offering them as a kit and continuing to offer them as a kit might undermine sales to customers in a much larger arena.

Let's say I offer them through the end of the year as kits. I'd do so unadvertised and not on the web site. I will make it known to everyone via the forum here at the Audio Circle. I am sure I will still have a guy or two that want them as kits but don't have the money yet or want them in February or something... Hey, just let me know your circumstances and when you want them and I'll accommodate you. Easy as that.

What do you think? Is this fair enough?

klh · « **Reply #4 on:** 4 Sep 2007, 05:34 pm »

Genearally speaker, Danny has a tendancy to sell kits past their intended time frame if you just ask. This is of course under the radar and done on an individual basis. Profit is profit and he knows the value of keeping people on this forum happy. Now don't get me wrong, he won't give this stuff away, but at the same time, he won't cut out a loyal (and vocal) base.

Milehighguy · « **Reply #5 on:** 4 Sep 2007, 06:27 pm »

Sounds like a tough decision. Here's my amatuer $.02 worth.

I don't think 6 or 7 kit builders a year will undercut the commercial operations. It seems like kit builders are a different market than the general speaker buying public. They like to build, and if they can't build this speaker, they may go for another speaker. Likewise, a person who wants a prebuilt speaker isn't to likely to try a project of this size.

then theres the guy who can barely afford the kit, and for sure can't afford a pre-built. Having the kit option would be the difference between having or not having his dream speakers.

Look at this hypothetical dialogue Between Frank and his wife Ethel:

Frank: Look at these cool speakers, Ethel, these would really be impressive in our family room!

Ethel: How much are they? Oh my God! We can't afford $5,000 speakers, and I'm not fond of those finish options either.

Frank: I could build them a lot cheaper with the $2800 kit if I don't buy that bigger boat. Plus, I can finish them to match our room.

Ethel: Hmmm.. Well, it would keep you busy and out of my hair for a good while... O.K. Honey, go for it. I can't wait to see the look on the Jones's face! You're my hero!

Happy Ending!

Milehighguy · « **Reply #6 on:** 4 Sep 2007, 07:18 pm »

A couple of other thoughts...

You could put the kit on your website, but add something like this "We understand that many people who are interested in these speakers are not prepared to build a kit of this size. No problem, just contact us for information on vendors who offer prebuilt versions of the LS-9 speakers"

Or "We understand that manypeople who are interested in these speakers are not prepared to build a kit of this size. No problem, prebuilt models are available at a very reasonable price from Xyz. For an additional charge, more elaborate or customized versions are available from Abc."

This way, instead of undercuting the commercial operations, you would be helping to advertise the commercial side.

Or, you could leave the LS-9's off the website and only the loyal followers of this forum would know about the kit option.

klh · « **Reply #7 on:** 4 Sep 2007, 09:24 pm »

Jack... I like your perspective.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #8 on:** 4 Sep 2007, 09:31 pm »

I'll figure something out that works for everyone and doesn't leave anyone out.

Rocket_Ronny · « **Reply #9 on:** 5 Sep 2007, 02:04 pm »

Here are some LS 6 build questions for Danny, or anyone else for that matter.

-What would it take to lower the crossover point to 850 hz, or even 650? Is it as simple as changing out a cap and coil?

-What would your guess be at those frequencies as to the db loss. Down 6 to 8 db perhaps?

-I would like to get the crossover point nice and low to exercise those planers and would digitally e.q. any drops.

Also, I am thinking I would like to give the cab some shape. So would like to slope the top down about 2 inches from front to back, to a point about 4 inches from the back, then from there slope the top back to the rest of the back about 16" down from the top. The effect would be to get rid of a squared off top.

-So would this cause any ill effects sound wise?

Thanks.

Rocket_not totally square_Ronny

Danny Richie · « **Reply #10 on:** 5 Sep 2007, 10:00 pm »

Quote

-What would it take to lower the crossover point to 850 hz, or even 650? Is it as simple as changing out a cap and coil?

With the LS-6 you'd be forcing it a little. The natural roll off made it look good at near 1kHz.

Quote

-What would your guess be at those frequencies as to the db loss. Down 6 to 8 db perhaps?

You mean with the stock crossover? How much are the tweeters down by a certain range? I don't get it.

Quote

-I would like to get the crossover point nice and low to exercise those planers and would digitally e.q. any drops.

If you have the ability to mess with it then see what you can do with it.

Quote

Also, I am thinking I would like to give the cab some shape. So would like to slope the top down about 2 inches from front to back, to a point about 4 inches from the back, then from there slope the top back to the rest of the back about 16" down from the top. The effect would be to get rid of a squared off top. -So would this cause any ill effects sound wise?

So long as you are not changing the shape of the front baffle then you are not going to adversely effect it any.

Rocket_Ronny · « **Reply #11 on:** 5 Sep 2007, 10:42 pm »

Thanks Danny:

What I meant was that if a guy would try a 850, or even a 650, crossover point on the LS 6s, what would your guess be as to what kind of a dip that would create given the natural roll off of the neos?

So to change the crossover point, from 1 khz to either 850 or 650, is it a simple matter of changing the values of the cap on the neos and inductor on the woofs. If so, then that would allow me to try it, and if it was a flop, then I could simply replace those parts with the correct ones.

For me, one of the appeals of either the LS 6s and 9s over the OB 5s is that the neos go lower. I really like those drivers.

Thanks again.

Rocket_Ronny

Danny Richie · « **Reply #12 on:** 5 Sep 2007, 11:26 pm »

If you want to stick with the passive crossover then stick with what has been proven to work and work well (stock form). Forcing the tweeters lower will not yield good results. It it is down in output in that range already bringing it up higher means pulling everything else down. Then you have the sensitivity of the woofer to bring down too. I wouldn't go there.

If you are going all digital crossovers then that is a different story. You can add gain or attenuate as needed.

If you want a lower crossover point then go with the 9's. It crosses at 850Hz.

Rocket_Ronny · « **Reply #13 on:** 6 Sep 2007, 02:56 am »

Thanks Danny:

I was looking at a mix of the two, passive crossover, with digital to fill it out. So whatever problems a lower crossover point would induce, like a fair suckout at that point, the digital could fix.

I can certainly see the lure of the LS 9s, and if they were not in my living room, but a dedicated audio toy room, then the height issue would be no problem. The bigger the better. I have lived with Acoustat 1+1s in my living room before so I know the feeling. They were almost 8 feet tall.

Rocket_still not crossed over_Ronny

Rafal · « **Reply #14 on:** 9 Sep 2007, 09:48 pm »

Danny,

This whole idea of lina arrays got me thinking. If I were to get a pair of LS6 or LS9 how much would kits cost and how much would complete speakers cost? I'm trying to get an idea if it's worth going down the diy route.

Thanks,

Rafal

Danny Richie · « **Reply #15 on:** 9 Sep 2007, 10:54 pm »

Both are available and ready to ship as kits.

The LS-6 kits are $1.995. LS-9 kits are $2,695.

You can contact Denny at Custom Concepts (Daygloworange) to order a fully assembled pair or a pair of enclosures completed with crossovers and wiring installed. You just drop in the drivers and connect them. This can save quite a bit in shipping charges not having to ship the drivers to Canada and Back. Denny is building out the enclosures in a way that takes them to the next level too. All walls get thicker and sides get a little curve.

AV123 might have completed pairs of LS-6's ready by mid November and LS-9's before the end of the year if all goes as planed. Their introductory price was $3,000. and $4,000. complete. I don't know how long they can maintain that ridiculously low price. The only difference between the kit and AV123 versions is parts quality. Parts quality is good, but not quite to the level of what comes in the kit.

pmindemann · « **Reply #16 on:** 17 Sep 2007, 02:07 pm »

Quote

No worries here at all. I always stock and service anything I sell or have sold.

Danny, would it be possible to purchase some of the raw drivers now, even before I've received the completed speakers from AV123? I want to have at least one mid/woofer and one tweeter unit on-hand, in the event that children, pets or other factors cause damage at some point. I know I'll probably be able to get them later as well, but I figure getting them now will be the best way to ensure that they are built to the same tolerances and under the same conditions as the units that will be going into my speakers.

londonbarn · « **Reply #17 on:** 18 Sep 2007, 06:46 pm »

HHMMMM.......Sounds kinda fishy........................

pmindemann · « **Reply #18 on:** 18 Sep 2007, 11:15 pm »

Quote from: londonbarn on 18 Sep 2007, 06:46 pm

HHMMMM.......Sounds kinda fishy........................

What's so fishy about wanting replacement drivers? I had very expensive Sonus Fabers that had a tweeter go bad, and I had to send it back to the factory TWICE before they finally heard the problem and agreed to replace the driver. A close friend of mine had the same thing happen with his MB Quart home speakers. A real pain... and these speakers (LS-6s) are NOT ones that I'd want to have to send back to AV123 if a driver should go back or become damaged.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #19 on:** 18 Sep 2007, 11:40 pm »

No worries. I can sell you a spare driver or two.