You ever kept a piece, even thought you KNOW it's not right?

Hantra · « **on:** 30 Aug 2003, 03:41 am »

All:

Recently, I found a good deal on a Plinius 8200 MkII. The thing has about 2 weeks non-stop on it. I have been using it while Scott is doing some mods to my monoblocks.

Something strikes me about this amp. It's not right by any stretch of the imagination. The Nixon amps slaughter the Plinius in terms of transparency, complete silence, speed, transients, and they even control the bass better than the Plinius. The Plinius sounds quite a bit more veiled in comparison. Kind of like the sound is "cloudy" compared to the Nixons.

Thing is. . . I like it. The strangest thing is, this thing has an extremely high "emotion factor". I mean, in the past 2 weeks living with this, I have had as many emotional listening experiences as I have had in the past couple of years. That's something that is really hard for me to ignore.

I feel though like I am getting further away from the truth, and adding lots and lots of artificial beauty with the Plinius.

I am extremely torn between these two sounds. On the one hand, there is nothing out there I have ever heard that is like the Nixon amps. In fact, few amps I have ever heard are even worthy of comparison. I had a Bryston B-60 which was rated I think at 124db S/N, and the Nixon amps are MUCH quieter. They are so fast, and so real. Eerily transparent, and have amazing control.

Why am I having trouble here? It should be a no-brainer, right?

Has anyone ever chosen the path they KNEW was wrong? Did you regret it?

It's not like I have to sell one or the other. But it is a PITA to have two amps, and switch depending on your mood.

Any input from folks who have had similar experiences?

B

John B · « **Reply #1 on:** 30 Aug 2003, 03:54 am »

Oh do I ever know what you're talking about. I had that amp for 8 months and thought I was in audio heaven. Everything I played was wonderful. Than I decided to get a 3-ch amp for my center and rears, for my HT use. I decided to investigate a brand I'd heard about and had been meaning to try for a number of years. I purchased the AVA Omegastar 240/3. I also ordered a new pre-pro which would arrive a week after this amp. When the AVA arrived I wanted to be sure it worked so I unhooked the Plinius and put the 240/3 to the test. I've never had such a week of confusion in my audio life. This 125 wpc amp was putting my glorious Plinius to shame. The Plinius sounded so veiled in a/b comparisons between the two. What I'd thought was musical and dynamic with the Plinius turned out to be soft mush in comparison to this 3-ch amp. I sold the Plinius soon after and picked up the AVA Fet Valve EX amp. Another major leap in musicality and transparency. So, what can I say. Don't listen to any other amps and you'll probably slide into a long and happy relationship with the Plinius

Rocket · « **Reply #2 on:** 31 Aug 2003, 01:34 am »

hi hantra,

interesting post.

amazingly the plinius amps get rave reviews on audio asylum all the time.

makes you wonder.

regards

rocket

eric the red · « **Reply #3 on:** 31 Aug 2003, 02:51 am »

I've had three different pair of Platinum Audio Solos go through component central here in the last few years and am eyeballing some Duos that just went up on Agone if that counts.

KevinW · « **Reply #4 on:** 31 Aug 2003, 04:24 am »

Hantra,
I know what you're talking about. Some amps generate emotions and experience, while others merely generate a reproduction of music. I've been on a quest for so-called "involving" electronics for several years, and I'm beginning to zero in. That's part of the reason I've decided to manufacture my own equipment... so that I could have gear that meets my own high standards for generating emotional involvement.

Today has been a very interesting for me, relating exactly to the question you posed. I've got a prototype class D amplifier up and running, and the sound is stunning to say the least. Very powerful, detailed, 3D imaging, etc... and very analogue, non-fatiguing sound. But at the moment, it's just not as involving as my 3.5w SET amp. I've come to realize that while the SET totally lacks the dynamics of the Class D, it generates an emotional response to music like nothing else I have heard. I find myself very attracted to the new capabilities of my Class D amp, but yet at the same time, listening is just not as worthwhile. I focus on the mechanics of how the amp performs, and not on the music itself. I do not feel satisfied by this.

Does this make sense to you? Do you have any experience with SET amps?

(Note: development on my class D amp is only beginning, with the goal of making it more involving as I've described. I'm not trashing my own amp... yet

)

Hantra · « **Reply #5 on:** 31 Aug 2003, 05:13 am »

Quote from: KevinW

I find myself very attracted to the new capabilities of my Class D amp, but yet at the same time, listening is just not as worthwhile. I focus on the mechanics of how the amp performs, and not on the music itself. I do not feel satisfied by this.

Does this make sense to you? Do you have any experience with SET amps?

This is the same for me. 5 out of 6 things are better with my other amps, but the fact is, the one thing (emotion) weighs VERY heavily on my audio decision-making.

I had a nice Audio Note that was Parallel Single Ended. It was sweet, but it didn't do all I needed. The best SET's I have heard are the Philly Audio Neutron 300B monos. Amazing amps those are! But again, they won't do it for me. not enough power.

L8r,

B

KevinW · « **Reply #6 on:** 31 Aug 2003, 06:26 am »

Have you heard any of the higher power SETs? The 845 tube puts out about 20 watts, and ASL has an 805 tube that puts out 40 watts. I haven't heard them myself.

Have you considered more efficient speakers to match with the lower powered SETs?

Also, what are your six criteria?

Hantra · « **Reply #7 on:** 31 Aug 2003, 04:18 pm »

Quote

Have you heard any of the higher power SETs? The 845 tube puts out about 20 watts, and ASL has an 805 tube that puts out 40 watts. I haven't heard them myself.

BradV has a Bel Canto SET 40, and it uses 845's. A very nice amp indeed!

Quote

Have you considered more efficient speakers to match with the lower powered SETs?

I was very close to buying Cain and Cain Abby's. I just don't really want to lock myself in to anything in particular. With the speaker I have now, I can use a wider range of stuff.

Quote

Also, what are your six criteria?

Well, I never really thought that much about this. I suppose they would be:

- Emotion Factor
- Naturalness and harmonics
- Sense of ease
- Black backgrounds
- Ability to play somewhat loud
- Soundstaging

rkapadia@ROOP · « **Reply #8 on:** 31 Aug 2003, 06:05 pm »

Hantra,

I've owned the Bel Canto 845 for a long time - still near the top of my list for favorite amps. To this day I still haven't forgiven Bel Canto for discontiuing production.

Dehavilland does manufacture a 845 monoblock with almost 35wpc (not as hot of a bias versus the Bel Canto), and a new single GM70 power triode (NOT parallel) for over 60wpc - that's amazing power for a single tube in SET implementation.

Kind Regards,

Rup

JohnR · « **Reply #9 on:** 1 Sep 2003, 01:02 pm »

Heh, to me Hantra's question shows up how differently different people can perceive gear in different circumstances... I owned an 8200 (the "Mk I" I guess) for a while and "glorious" and "emotion" are the last words I would have used to describe it.

Hantra · « **Reply #10 on:** 2 Sep 2003, 02:53 am »

Quote

"emotion" are the last words I would have used to describe it.

John:

What didn't you like about it? Maybe I am missing something bad. heh

B

JohnR · « **Reply #11 on:** 2 Sep 2003, 03:07 am »

I thought it was kinda bland... nothing offensive, just...