Cleaning Vinyl....with Windex???

Airborn · « **on:** 20 Aug 2007, 04:46 am »

OK, get this...ever since I got back into vinyl 6 months ago I have been searching for a good, local used record store. I finally find a place with thousands of new and used LPs and nothing else called Wax Trax. All the LPs look like they are in great shape and glisten and shine like new. I figure the owner must really know about cleaning used vinyl, so I ask him and his wife (it's a small family business, they're in their 60's I'd guess) what they use to clean all the used LPs they acquire. The wife says WINDEX WITH PAPER TOWELS!

This is no joke and they have hundreds of audiophile pressings, many early jazz LPs priced at hundreds of dollars each!

Is it safe to buy from this place and what do you vinyl experts think about using Windex on our precious LPs?

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #1 on:** 20 Aug 2007, 05:08 am »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLR12l2BydI

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #2 on:** 20 Aug 2007, 05:18 am »

It's probably better than not cleaning at all....but, regardless of what is is cleaned with, I have never found a hand cleaner and any combination of cleaning aids as effective as cleaning with a vacuum record cleaner.

The application of a wet cleaner, alone, should reduce static....I'm not sure what is in Windex, otherwise.

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #3 on:** 20 Aug 2007, 05:21 am »

Quote from: TheChairGuy on 20 Aug 2007, 05:18 am

..I'm not sure what is in Windex, otherwise.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windex

Airborn · « **Reply #4 on:** 20 Aug 2007, 05:24 am »

Hey Chris, you're up late! I think the dangerous part of Windex for LPs would be the amonia, but I could be wrong based on your You Tube guy.

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #5 on:** 20 Aug 2007, 05:32 am »

Quote from: Airborn on 20 Aug 2007, 05:24 am

Hey Chris, you're up late! I think the dangerous part of Windex for LPs would be the amonia, but I could be wrong based on your You Tube guy.

Late....its early...

I don't think strong chemicals are good for vinyl....but, hey....I could be wrong.

Wayner · « **Reply #6 on:** 20 Aug 2007, 11:35 am »

I think Methal Alcohol (and water) is the base for Windex. That doesn't bother me. Why the paper towels?

Wayner

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #7 on:** 20 Aug 2007, 03:53 pm »

Quote from: Wayner on 20 Aug 2007, 11:35 am

That doesn't bother me. Why the paper towels?

Yes, me too, they should use Tushies baby wipes instead

sts9fan · « **Reply #8 on:** 20 Aug 2007, 04:13 pm »

All it has in it is alcohols and ethers there will not be residue.

doug s. · « **Reply #9 on:** 20 Aug 2007, 06:37 pm »

my "audiophile" record cleaning system has worked for me, for almost 40 years. it involves first gently rinsing off the winyl under the kitchen sink with luke-warm water. then i wash the record with clean sponge & mild dish detergent, (non-ammonia window cleaner would also be fine), gently scrubbing in the direction of the grooves. then i rinse w/lukewarm water. then dry w/a soft lint-free towel. for the past ten years or so, all my records are played w/a keith monks record sweeper, a grounded brush on a spindly arm that tracks the grooves whilst the record is playing. prior to that, i used a similar watts dust bug. records that were in good shape when i got them, still remain that way today, even the really old ones.

doug s.

Scott F. · « **Reply #10 on:** 20 Aug 2007, 06:53 pm »

Be careful using alcohols in cleaning vinyl. It can break down the plastics over long periods of time. I have no idea what the other ingredients will do to the plastics. If they were mine, I'd stick to a product like the Disc Doctor offers.

hurdy_gurdyman · « **Reply #11 on:** 21 Aug 2007, 06:14 pm »

Quote from: doug s. on 20 Aug 2007, 06:37 pm

my "audiophile" record cleaning system has worked for me, for almost 40 years. it involves first gently rinsing off the winyl under the kitchen sink with luke-warm water. then i wash the record with clean sponge & mild dish detergent, (non-ammonia window cleaner would also be fine), gently scrubbing in the direction of the grooves. then i rinse w/lukewarm water. then dry w/a soft lint-free towel. for the past ten years or so, all my records are played w/a keith monks record sweeper, a grounded brush on a spindly arm that tracks the grooves whilst the record is playing. prior to that, i used a similar watts dust bug. records that were in good shape when i got them, still remain that way today, even the really old ones.

doug s.

This is very similar to what I do to clean records. The only difference is that I use an Audio Technica Sonic Broom sprayed with distilled water just before playing instead of a Kieith Monks sweeper. I also use an old Rat Shack anti-static brush on heavy static days. It helps some. BTW, I've been using the tap water and detergent cleaning method for over 30 years with no problems.

Dave

SET Man · « **Reply #12 on:** 22 Aug 2007, 12:42 am »

Hey!

I don't think Windex is a good idea. I think it will leave some residue for sure... might be little but could be enough for your stylus to pick up. And I don't ammonia is good on record.

You know I remembered I've read it somewhere that some people use Dawn dish washing liquid to wash their record. And I remembered there were Dawn's TV commercial showing that wild life rescuers use Dawn to clean off those animals that got oil on them. So, if is it good enough to clean those birds than I guess it might be fine for record too right?

Anyway, I'm using Disc Doctor right now and it work well for me. And it is relatively inexpensive. My LPs are nice and clean.

Take care,
Buddy

Ferdi · « **Reply #13 on:** 22 Aug 2007, 08:54 am »

Hi all, I am slowly getting back into vinyl (although I now already have 2 players...). I don't have much relevant experience to offer so take the below with a grain of salt.

I would not be so worried about the Windex residue itself but rather from the dirt loosened by the Windex solution clustering somehow and being left behind if there is no rinse step.

I am going to try the general detergent, something called Dreft in NL.

doug s. · « **Reply #14 on:** 22 Aug 2007, 03:18 pm »

Quote from: hurdy_gurdyman on 21 Aug 2007, 06:14 pm

Quote from: doug s. on 20 Aug 2007, 06:37 pm
my "audiophile" record cleaning system has worked for me, for almost 40 years. it involves first gently rinsing off the winyl under the kitchen sink with luke-warm water. then i wash the record with clean sponge & mild dish detergent, (non-ammonia window cleaner would also be fine), gently scrubbing in the direction of the grooves. then i rinse w/lukewarm water. then dry w/a soft lint-free towel. for the past ten years or so, all my records are played w/a keith monks record sweeper, a grounded brush on a spindly arm that tracks the grooves whilst the record is playing. prior to that, i used a similar watts dust bug. records that were in good shape when i got them, still remain that way today, even the really old ones.

doug s.
This is very similar to what I do to clean records. The only difference is that I use an Audio Technica Sonic Broom sprayed with distilled water just before playing instead of a Kieith Monks sweeper. I also use an old Rat Shack anti-static brush on heavy static days. It helps some. BTW, I've been using the tap water and detergent cleaning method for over 30 years with no problems.

Dave

i have always preferred using a tracking brush cleaner instead of a manual brush, as it keeps dust off the record while it is playing. i would use one even if i used a record cleaning machine. i strongly recommend trying one. but, unless you have a hi-torque motor, or a way to adjust the speed of your platter, it will ever-so-slightly slow down the speed of your turntable - just as a stylus playing your record will. (put a strobe on your deck, if you don't believe it.)

similar dust arms can still be found:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300143237538
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280132313275

you can see mine in action here:

doug s.

twitch54 · « **Reply #15 on:** 25 Aug 2007, 02:07 pm »

Quote from: SET Man on 22 Aug 2007, 12:42 am

Hey!

I don't think Windex is a good idea. And I don't ammonia is good on record.

You know I remembered I've read it somewhere that some people use Dawn dish washing liquid to wash their record. And I remembered there were Dawn's TV commercial showing that wild life rescuers use Dawn to clean off those animals that got oil on them. So, if is it good enough to clean those birds than I guess it might be fine for record too right?

Anyway, I'm using Disc Doctor right now and it work well for me. And it is relatively inexpensive. My LPs are nice and clean.

Take care,
Buddy

Buddy, I agree , Disc Doctor has been working fine for me as well. When rinsing is required ONLY distilled water , NEVER tap water. Seems to me someone mentioned this in a 'general' statement, man-o-man, I doubt very much that one knows what all is in tap water (mineral content, Ph and alkalinity levels, etc, etc)

Wayner · « **Reply #16 on:** 25 Aug 2007, 02:38 pm »

I've been cleaning records "under the sink" longer than alot of you have been alive. My records are clean, noise free and "slippery". I too, use dishwashing detergent with a good rinse. I don't think I've washed a record more than 3 times though. It is important to clean before each play. I still use my Discwasher brush with a lite spray of H20/99% alcohol mix (75% H20, 25% al). I also use the Milty Zerostat, but not very often.

I have some records from when I was 14 that have been played hundreds of times with almost zero ware and zero signs of alcohol damage.

Windex? too expensive. By the way, I use windshield wiper fluid in my windex bottle. It's a lot cheaper and it's the same thing.

W

twitch54 · « **Reply #17 on:** 25 Aug 2007, 05:50 pm »

Quote from: Wayner on 25 Aug 2007, 02:38 pm

I've been cleaning records "under the sink" longer than alot of you have been alive. My records are clean, noise free and "slippery". I too, use dishwashing detergent with a good rinse. I don't think I've washed a record more than 3 times though. It is important to clean before each play. I still use my Discwasher brush with a lite spray of H20/99% alcohol mix (75% H20, 25% al). I also use the Milty Zerostat, but not very often.

I have some records from when I was 14 that have been played hundreds of times with almost zero ware and zero signs of alcohol damage.

Windex? too expensive. By the way, I use windshield wiper fluid in my windex bottle. It's a lot cheaper and it's the same thing.

W

Wayner, considering I've been spinning vinyl since the Fifties (didn't own my first TT till '61 though) making a 'general' statement that tap water is A-OK is FLAT wrong, while it might be fine where you live keep in mind this is a somewhat large country we live in and things vary. Besides one of my other hobbies is Live Steam and I can tell you first hand if you were to see what the inside of model steam engine boiler looked like after being 'fired' with tap water, you might understand. There is NO WAY in Gods Green Earth that tap water can be as consistent as distilled water.

Again I'm not trying to say 'doom and gloom' is around the corner for ones record collection, just that distilled water is so damn cheap, why not play it safe.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #18 on:** 25 Aug 2007, 06:06 pm »

Wayner - do you or your wife drink and brew coffee at home?

Take a look at your coffee pot (glass or otherwise). The thick white ring of crusted dust inside your pot (and fave cup if you have one) is lime

Lime is formed from calcium from.....taa-daa...tap water. The upper Midwest has some of the heaviest/hardest water in the US....'hard' water specifically refers to calcium and other minerals inherent in tap water.

I wouldn't doubt one of the better selling chemicals down at your neighborhood Cub Foods in MN is either Lime-a-Way or CLR - Calcium/Lime/Rust Remover. There's a reason for this...you have hard water. Using tap water to clean your records is likely depositing an veritable trail of minerals in those skinny grooves.

At the very least, you need to 'wash' your records with water from a PUR or Brita (faucet-mount) filter that will at least remove some measure of calcium, magnesium, flourine, chlorine, and other minerals.

Tap water is not okay to use on vinyl....even in relatively 'soft' water areas (like metro NY and metro Washington DC). All tap water has minerals, all water is 'treated' with minerals and chemicals for human consumption...but it is decidedly not good for vinyl consumption

Wayner · « **Reply #19 on:** 25 Aug 2007, 06:41 pm »

twitch 54 and John, the (former chair guy),

I happen to own a state of the art water softener that takes 'er down to 25 grains. Yes, I agree that if chuncks of rust or lime are spewing out of your faucet, I wouldn't use it to clean my records either, nor would I drink it. In both your examples, the water was heated. In the coffee pot the water evaporated and left deposits, in the boiler of the steam whatever, the same thing happened. Normal tap water IS harmless to a record.

I have 1600 LP's that I'm sure most on the vinyl circle would be more than happy to have. And when they would hear the sonic quality during playback, they would grin from ear to ear. My methods have stood the test of time.

I understand your fears, but the impact just isn't there. If you want to spend money on "offical" record cleaners and conditioners, go ahead. I see absolute zero need for it myself. I have occasionally thought of buying one on VPI's record cleaners, but then I ask myself...why? My records can't really get any cleaner.

O.k., I'm a stubborn old fart. I do respect your opinions, I just don't agree with them.

aa