[Bigfish]

I know that many owners of the Bolder Modified Squeezeboxes are directly connecting them to their amps.  Those of you that are connecting directly to the amps would you mind responding to the following?

Type of AMP (SS or Tube)?
Are you using an Ultimate Power Supply?
Are you using a Burston Buffer? 

Wayne performed the analog mods to my S3 and added the platinum caps.  He also modded the Elpac linear power supply.  I am currently have the S3 connected to my Odyssey Candela Preamp.  My amps are Odyssey Mono SEs.  I am wondering if anyone is directly connecting to Mono SEs?

Thanks,

Ken

[Double Ugly]

I think you know what I had, Ken, but just in case -

Type of AMP (SS or Tube)?  Both (hybrid monoblocks).
Are you using an Ultimate Power Supply?  Yes, I was.
Are you using a Burston Buffer?    I didn't know of its existence, but I would've used one.  The improvements I heard with the Burson surprised me.

As for the Mono SEs, I made an offer for an improved pair of them yesterday, but things didn't work out.  Too bad; I'd like to have tried them on the Timepieces, and maybe tried to convince Klaus to build another pair so I could bi-amp the Revelations. 
 
DU

[TomS]

Yep - I've tried all of the following ('cuz my Candela isn't here yet), with the Ultimate MK II w/Black Sand Silver MKV's on the PS, Burson, and both SE's.

SB3 -> SE's
SB3 -> Sonic Euphoria (+10db) -> SE's
SB3 -> Sonic Euphoria (+10db) -> Burson (+6db) -> SE's
SB3 -> Burson (+6db) -> SE's
SB3 -> Burson (+6db) -> Sonic Euphoria (+10db) -> SE's

Speakers are Merlin VSM-MX's, so I ALSO have the Merlin SBAM in the loop usually between the Sonic Euphoria and Burson.

I also tried all those combos with the BEL 1001 monoblocks, but ultimately liked the SE's better.

Tom

[Double Ugly]

Are you using a stock BB, Tom?

[TomS]

Are you using a stock BB, Tom?

Yes it's stock.  I got one of the first ones Wayne had available and was just waiting for him to finalize what he's going to do in terms of productizing.  It didn't really sing until I put the BS MK V on it though.  I realize I haven't heard the best of it yet, but may wait to send back my Ultimate MK II for MK IV treatment and the Burson at the same time.  Maybe I'll just carry the whole thing out to RMAF 

[zybar]

Are you using a stock BB, Tom?

Yes it's stock.  I got one of the first ones Wayne had available and was just waiting for him to finalize what he's going to do in terms of productizing.  It didn't really sing until I put the BS MK V on it though.  I realize I haven't heard the best of it yet, but may wait to send back my Ultimate MK II for MK IV treatment and the Burson at the same time.  Maybe I'll just carry the whole thing out to RMAF 

I have had Wayne's modified Burson or his Control Center (which has a modified Burson built in) in my system for almost a month now and I can say unequivocally that it is much better across the board than a stock Burson.

While I know everybody has their own value system, for me, it is a no brainer, and well worth the investment.  In fact, I think that all SB2/SB3 owners who try it in their system, will be able to easily hear an improvement.

Highly recommended!!   

George

[zybar]

I know that many owners of the Bolder Modified Squeezeboxes are directly connecting them to their amps.  Those of you that are connecting directly to the amps would you mind responding to the following?

Type of AMP (SS or Tube)?
Are you using an Ultimate Power Supply?
Are you using a Burston Buffer? 

Wayne performed the analog mods to my S3 and added the platinum caps.  He also modded the Elpac linear power supply.  I am currently have the S3 connected to my Odyssey Candela Preamp.  My amps are Odyssey Mono SEs.  I am wondering if anyone is directly connecting to Mono SEs?

Thanks,

Ken

AMP:  Bella Extreme 100 Tube Mono Blocks running in Triode mode
PS:  Ultimate II PS with Black Sand Silver Ref Mk IV power cord
Burson:  Stock (on loan from a very cool AC member) and modified by Wayne

Haven't heard the Odyssey amps, but I love having the modified SB go directly into my amps - no preamps are in my future...

George

[Scott F.]

What we experienced here in St Louis last week was just short of phenomenal.

George shipped us his (Waynes?) modded Burson and we used the latest Statement modded SB with the Level IV power supply. We fed all this into my active crossover (modded Pioneer SF850) and then split the signal to my 300B DRD's driving my Lowther PM2A's in an open baffle and the AKSA 55n+ driving some vintage 15" Goodmans in BR cabinets.

The stock Burson made a very pronounced improvement but the modded Burson really opened things up. If I were purely digital, that would be the way I'd run my rig. Trouble is I have tons of vinyl and a nice vinyl rig so I need a preamp.

Bottom line, it was very, very good. For me, it is the best digital I've experienced so far. Great job Wayne 

[Double Ugly]

Haven't heard the Odyssey amps, but I love having the modified SB go directly into my amps - no preamps are in my future...

When you say "Control Center", are you talking about the B³ (Burson/Bent/Bolder) unit?

I thought it was/is a pre-amp built around a modified Burson Buffer.  Am I mistaken?

[zybar]

Haven't heard the Odyssey amps, but I love having the modified SB go directly into my amps - no preamps are in my future...

When you say "Control Center", are you talking about the B³ (Burson/Bent/Bolder) unit?

I thought it was/is a pre-amp built around a modified Burson Buffer.  Am I mistaken?

Yes, I am talking about the Burson/Bent/Bolder unit.

Maybe it is best if Wayne describes it.   

I just know it sounds very, very, good.

George

[Daygloworange]

I have been running a full analog modded Bolder SB 3 with Bolder modded Elpac straight to an ATI 1202 SS power amp( 2x  120 watts). I have also run the same setup with the original Burson that Wayne had.

Removing the pre amp was a serious improvement. The Burson restores a lot of the gain loss(but not all, in my case) of the pre amp, without imparting a loss of resolution that the pre-amp does.

I'm now running the modded SB 3 straight into 2 ATI 1202's ( 4x  120 watts), in a vertical bi-amp arrangement, with the Bolder Ultimate PS Mk II powering the SB 3.

This is by far the best digital I've heard in my system.

The experiences that people write about in regards to how much improved the performance of SB 3's in conjunction with the Bolder products (the Ultimate PS, and Burson Buffer) have been very true in my experiences with them.

Very worthwile improvements. I will be purchasing both the Ultimate PS Mk IV and Bolder/Burson Buffer, as well as sending my SB 3 in for the full Statement mods.

The Bolder/Burson/Bent buffer is for those user's who need to connect multiple sources to the amp with programability. The Bolder/Burson is those who run a single source and don't need a volume control(ie: SB 3 with it's internal volume control).

Cheers

[Wayne1]

Daygloworange has it correct.

The Bolder/Burson/Bent buffer is for those user's who need to connect multiple sources to the amp with programmability. The Bolder/Burson is those who run a single source and don't need a volume control(ie: SB 3 with it's internal volume control).

The other difference is the remote switching and resistor stepped attenuator in the Bent version.

Bigfish,

I think one of the reasons the SEs don't sound quite as good run direct from the modded SB is their low input impedance. You do not say how long a line level cable you are using or if it is shielded or low capacitance.

Quite a few of the people using the modded SB direct are using very short runs of interconnect into high input impedance (tube) amps.

A stock Burson Buffer will help with those concerns. It will provide 6 db of gain and add more current drive to overcome the low input impedance.

I hope to be finally finishing up with the prototyping of the "mods" to the Burson Buffer. I received the custom transformers from the supplier last week. I will be raising the gain on the Buffer to 12 db for this "experiment". It should be sent back to Zybar for his comments later this week.

The Bent/ Buffer control center will be returned to me for the same upgrades. Then it will go out to Woodsyi for his evaluation. I believe he will be comparing it to a Modwright and SAS unit.

The modded Buffer, as a product and if all goes well with the last trial, will not be available for orders until sometime after RMAF.

[zybar]

Wayne,

If you have improved upon the already outstanding modified Burson buffer that I listened to in my main system and loved, I am in for quite a treat!   

I know I sound like a broken record, but each time I have upgraded one your components, it has taken my digital playback to a higher level. This directly translates into me wanting to spend more time in front of my system and enjoying it even more.

George

[TomS]

Daygloworange has it correct.

The Bolder/Burson/Bent buffer is for those user's who need to connect multiple sources to the amp with programmability. The Bolder/Burson is those who run a single source and don't need a volume control(ie: SB 3 with it's internal volume control).

The other difference is the remote switching and resistor stepped attenuator in the Bent version.

Bigfish,

I think one of the reasons the SEs don't sound quite as good run direct from the modded SB is their low input impedance. You do not say how long a line level cable you are using or if it is shielded or low capacitance.

Quite a few of the people using the modded SB direct are using very short runs of interconnect into high input impedance (tube) amps.

A stock Burson Buffer will help with those concerns. It will provide 6 db of gain and add more current drive to overcome the low input impedance.

I hope to be finally finishing up with the prototyping of the "mods" to the Burson Buffer. I received the custom transformers from the supplier last week. I will be raising the gain on the Buffer to 12 db for this "experiment". It should be sent back to Zybar for his comments later this week.

The Bent/ Buffer control center will be returned to me for the same upgrades. Then it will go out to Woodsyi for his evaluation. I believe he will be comparing it to a Modwright and SAS unit.

The modded Buffer, as a product and if all goes well with the last trial, will not be available for orders until sometime after RMAF.

Wayne,

For those of us not using the switching/Bent and need a bit more than the Burson's 6db, are you recommending upping the gain of the Burson itself from 6 to 12/18db as needed or using external transformers instead?  I think I already achieve that (sort of ) with the Sonic Euphoria's autoformer at +10db already.

Tom

[Wayne1]

Tom,

I would suggest raising the gain with the Burson rather than using another box and lots of wire in the signal path.

Try it and let us know what you find out.

I am just now changing out the power transformer in the prototype Buffer. Next up is raising the gain.

[Bigfish]

Bigfish,

I think one of the reasons the SEs don't sound quite as good run direct from the modded SB is their low input impedance. You do not say how long a line level cable you are using or if it is shielded or low capacitance.

Quite a few of the people using the modded SB direct are using very short runs of interconnect into high input impedance (tube) amps.

A stock Burson Buffer will help with those concerns. It will provide 6 db of gain and add more current drive to overcome the low input impedance.

[/quote]

Wayne:

I was using standard Odyssey Groneburg ICs that are approximately 6' long to connect the S3 to the amps.  The end of this week I will be obtaining new Grover ICs but they will 2 meters long.  The set-up I have with WAF will not allow me to use ICs that are much shorter.

I tried direct connecting the S3 to my amps for the first time this weekend.  Based on all of the positive comments about direct connecting, I was surprised at the lack of warmth and detail by eliminating the Candela Tube Preamp from the chain.  I certainly hope my original post was not deemed inappropriate as I was/am really trying to understand the results I experienced.  Bpape suggested impedence of the amps as you have suggested.

The experiment I conducted this weekend definitely confirmed I need more of your equipment/mods to be happy with the S3 connected directly to the Mono SEs.  The experience also taught me that the Candela is required in the chain until I have the additional mods and equipment.  Question:  Do you think the Burson Buffer alone will provide enough warmth and detail to eliminate the Candela and/or will the Burson Buffer further improve the performance with the Candela in the chain? 

I am definitely committed to further purchases from Bolder (Burson and Ultimate Power Supply) but must save for the purchase.  Also, Wayne, will you take S3's like mine and mod them up to the Statement Level?

Thanks,

Ken

[Daygloworange]

Bigfish,

I'm a little surprised to hear that you experienced lack of warmth and detail with the removal of your pre-amp into your Odyssey's.

We ran my modded SB 3 at the TAAS Amp Comparo earlier this year driving directly into all the amps there. With the exception of one SET integrated amp there, all the amps sounded real nice with the SB 3 sans pre-amp. There were a pair of Odyssey's in the Comparo.

Here is a list of the amps:

-Song Audio SA-300 MB mono blocs

    -Red Wine Audio Sig 70 mono blocs

-McAlister MB-130 mono blocs

    -Dodd Audio 120 (modified) mono blocs

-ATI 1202 (stereo)

    -Moscode 401HR (stereo)

-Dynaco ST 70 (stereo)

    -Kallista Audio Sinfonia 300 (stereo)

-markC's (prototype custom) Fvalve mono blocs

     -McCormack DNA 0.5 Deluxe (stereo)

-Electrohome PA 100 MK-1 X2 mono blocs

     -Bryston 9B ST (5 channel) (not pictured)

-Odyssey Audio Monoblock Extreme, Special Editions (not pictured)



We used a set of Bolder IC's that were 2 meters long. I'm not sure which ones, but they had WBT ends.

Which cables are you using?

Cheers

[zybar]

I found that a lot of that warmth and smooth, yet detailed sound comes from the Ultimate Power Supply upgrade.

While the modified Elpac is good for the money, the Ultimate MK II PS really takes the modified SB to a much higher performance level.

I would concentrate on getting the best modifications for the SB and PS and maybe go with a stock Burson buffer to start with.  You could move up to a modified Burson as funds allow.

If you don't need multiple sources, I think a Statement SB3 + Ultimate IV PS would make for an absolutely killer digital front end that will have details, dynamics, and a full bodied, grain free sound.

George

[Daygloworange]

I found that a lot of that warmth and smooth, yet detailed sound comes from the Ultimate Power Supply upgrade.

George

I'm listening to my SB 3 right now with the demo Ultimate PS Mk II, and totally agree. That's what the Ultimate does in a nutshell over the modded Elpac. It's a real level of refinement.

I'll also echo the rest of what George says. Good advice. You won't go wrong.

Cheers

[AphileEarlyAdopter]

To all those with the Ultimate PS ..
I have a question (or probably questions). Do you have any power conditioner in use already or is the Ultimate going directly to the wall ?
Here is my power supply chain -
cryoed wall outlet -> Empirical Audio Magnum Power cord -> Furman Power Factor Pro -> Black Sand Violet power cord -> Blue Circle MR1200 Balanced Power cord -> Bolder Elpac -> Bolder digital Sb3 (no bybees) -> Zu Ash Digital -> Panny digital amp.
I am wondering whether a ultimate and/or bybee will make a difference in my setup. (ha..I also have mapleshade silver paste on the connections !!)
(Wayne mentioned to me, that my stock Panny is the bottleneck, but he has not come forward to bless it with more power )