[Dekpm19]

I have been reading the different thread here for Jim's speakers for the past couple of years. What I would like to know  is for Home Theater what would be the best speakers. I know rooms are different and I will be working on my bouns room over the next year which is 16' x 21'. So what would be your choice of Jim's speakers for me to look at.
Thanks
Allen

[fsimms]

Any of Jim's speakers would be better than just about any other comparable choice.  It just depends on how much you want to spend and how much you will be listening to it. 

With Jim, you pretty much get what you pay for.  I would suggest you give Jim a call.  He will tell it to you straight.

[Big Red Machine]

What's your budget?  Dedicated HT use or 2 channel as well?  Are you a nut or just an average Joe when it comes to this space?  Gonna fully treat it acoustically, isolate, etc.?  What are your subwoofer plans - 300 watt 10" or 1000 watt 15"?  I reserve the right to ask more questions!

[Dekpm19]

What's your budget?  Dedicated HT use or 2 channel as well?  Are you a nut or just an average Joe when it comes to this space?  Gonna fully treat it acoustically, isolate, etc.?  What are your subwoofer plans - 300 watt 10" or 1000 watt 15"?  I reserve the right to ask more questions!

I haven't set a dollor amount for budget, but I want to get this right. The other speakers I have been looking at are the Aerial LCR 5. I know a killer system of speakers will cost me. This will be a decicated HT room very little 2 channel if any. I do plan on having it treated down the road. For subs I have been looking at the JL F113, but I know their are some new subs hitting the streets and I want at less 2 of them. Jim speakers look great and evrybody talks about how good they are so I am looking at his speakers but just wanted to know what people thought would be his best for HT. I plan on talking with Jim somewhere down the road.
Allen

[Big Red Machine]

The "best" ar the HT3's.  The V3's are excellent.  George will comment onthe SongT's soon.  To get it right give Jim a wide open opportunity to make all 5 speakers that fit your space and decor.  And tha could be SongT's, V's, or the kings.

[yooper]

I know a killer system of speakers will cost me. This will be a dedicated HT room very little 2 channel if any.
Allen

Hi Allen,

I have to say, when I bought my HT3's I bought them for mostly HT use.  When I realized the caliber of the speakers I really had, HT took a backseat to two channel listening, so much so that I just spent another 6K just for two channel amplification to accompany my already existing HT amplification.  I never thought two channel music listening could be such an incredible experience.

So, you may find that your music listening habits could possibly change.

My 2 pennies.

Mark

[Dekpm19]

I know a killer system of speakers will cost me. This will be a dedicated HT room very little 2 channel if any.
Allen

Hi Allen,

I have to say, when I bought my HT3's I bought them for mostly HT use.  When I realized the caliber of the speakers I really had, HT took a backseat to two channel listening, so much so that I just spent another 6K just for two channel amplification to accompany my already existing HT amplification.  I never thought two channel music listening could be such an incredible experience.

So, you may find that your music listening habits could possibly change.

My 2 pennies.

Mark

This is what I was looking for. What amps did you buy if you don't mind telling. Also do you run the HT3s full range or do you cross them over for HT.
Thanks
Allen

[jsalk]

Brian -

Also do you run the HT3s full range or do you cross them over for HT.

This is my "dilemma" too.  I might be placing an HT order (doubling as 2-channel) sometime in the upcoming months and wondering about the same thing.  With two 10-inch woofers do you *really* need a sub...or if you go with a sub so you *really* need the HT3s...

I'll take a shot at this since it is a question I am often asked.

Other than, say, Japanese Tyko drums and perhaps a deep note on an isolated pipe organ, the HT3's play low enough to faithfully reproduce the sound of any traditional instrument.  So, for music purposes, no sub is required.  Note that the 10" woofers in the HT3's are actually subwoofer drivers (very similar to those used in the original Carver Sunfire subs).

For home theater, it depends on what you are looking for.  Earthquakes and the like in some HT tracks do go lower than the HT3's.  Do you want to faithfully reproduce these sounds?  If so, a large sub or two is required (a small one simply won't add much extension without bottoming out under pressure).

Occasionally at my shop I will play deep bass tones for demonstration purposes.  People are always amazed at how low a 30 - 40Hz tone is!  But for some HT effects, frequencies called for can be even lower than human hearing.  In these cases, physical senses take over and you "feel" the bass.  This, of course, requires the movement of a great deal of air.  So a large sub or two is the solution.

So the question as to whether or not you need a sub with the HT3's depends on how realistically you want to reproduce these very deep bass frequencies and how much room you have to accommodate the associated subwoofer(s).

Your second question deals with whether or not you can re-create the HT3 experience with, say, HT1's and a good, fast subwoofer. 

The short answer is, yes, it is possible for the most part.

First, you would have to have a perfect set-up.  The gain would have to be spot on in the crossover area.  The phase relationship between the subwoofer and the mains would also have to be accurately set.  For most people, without the use of something like TacT, DEQX or the like, this is very difficult.  A Radio Shack SPL meter is about the most sophisticated equipment available to most consumers.  And it is highly unlikely that the average consumer will obtain proper integration with this approach.

That is the beauty of the HT3's.  All this is taken care of in the crossover and the integration is perfect right out of the box.

The next consideration is in the midrange area.  With the HT3's, the W18 is only used for midrange duty.  In other Veracity models, the W18 is used for midrange, mid-bass and bass.  While the W18 is a very low distortion driver, distortion is even lower when only called upon for midrange duties.  So the HT3's will have a slight edge here as well.

That said, we have many customers who have HT1's and a subwoofer and are very happy with the results.  And if you happen to have DEQX, TacT or the like, you can get very close to HT3 performance indeed.  It just requires a little more work on your part.  In this regard, the HT3's are "plug and play."

I hope this was helpful.

- Jim

[fsimms]

And if you happen to have DEQX, TacT or the like, you can get very close to HT3 performance indeed.  It just requires a little more work on your part.  In this regard, the HT3's are "plug and play."

That has been my experience too.  With my HT1's, stands, TacT 2.2x and SVS sub, I have spent more money than the amount HT3's would have cost.  HT3's just weren't available when I bought the HT1's.

[yooper]

This is what I was looking for. What amps did you buy if you don't mind telling. Also do you run the HT3s full range or do you cross them over for HT.
Thanks
Allen

I purchased Odyssey Mono Extreme's and Candela pre.  Actually, I should have them tomorrow. 

Brian and Allen- I prefer to use a sub (Velodyne DD15) for HT and Xover at 60 Hz. 

I have experimented with and without a dedicated sub.  The HT3's are very capable and accurate within their range and do a fantastic job with movies, but if you are looking to really "shake" things up while watching a movie that offers decent LFE, a dedicated sub is needed to really pressurize the room.  However, this is all dependent on the experience the listener is wanting.  Some may find the HT3's are perfect for their HT needs.

Many movies take advantage of LFE that simply plays lower than the HT3's were designed to do.  Now for music, a sub need not apply. 

With two 10-inch woofers do you *really* need a sub...or if you go with a sub so you *really* need the HT3s

Actually, I have seen many, many folks buy undersized subs.  Another words, they buy a 10" or 12" when a (or maybe 2!) 15" or 18" is needed for their listening room.  Many simply don't realize that correct sub size is totally dependent on total cubic feet within the listening area as well as accounting for cubit feet from adjoining rooms, hallways, etc.

So, IMHO the correct sized sub is a compliment to the HT3's for HT.  As far as needing the HT3's if one has a sub for HT, if using the HT3's ONLY for ht and the buyer is working within a budget, I would say no, as this may be overkill, only because the HT3's are that good.  Jim has other options you may want to look into.  BUT, if these speakers will be used for ht and two channel duties, it's a no brain-er.  Get the HT3's!! These speakers really, really, really love two channel music.


EDIT..I type to slow and timed out!  I see Jim has posted a better answer while I was using my hunt and peck technique.
Mark

[zybar]

Also do you run the HT3s full range or do you cross them over for HT.

This is my "dilemma" too.  I might be placing an HT order (doubling as 2-channel) sometime in the upcoming months and wondering about the same thing.  With two 10-inch woofers do you *really* need a sub...or if you go with a sub so you *really* need the HT3s...

Brian,

For 2 channel I never felt like I needed a sub or missing anything with my HT3's. 

For HT, I wanted to add a sub or two, but I blissfully went along without one and never felt cheated or underwhelmed.

This was in a room that was roughly 25 x 17 x 7.

At the risk of losing Jim some business...I suggest you go with HT3's first and decide later if you really need a sub.

George

[Big Red Machine]

Always recommend a sub for HT.  Don't ask your mains to ry and do this.  Don't forget some of the stuff they pour into the .1 track that makes the movie engage you (or move your scalp)

[Dekpm19]

I would like to thank everyone for their thoughts on this matter. I was thinking HT3 but justed wanted to know how everyone else thought about them for HT. I would have thought you could cross the HT3 over at around 40hz or so. I know room comes into play here though.
If you use the HT3 for the front what would you use for the sides. Would the V3 work? Do they have the same drivers as the HT3. I think the sub driver is a bit different.
Allen

[DMurphy]

Hi   Actually, the V3 and HT3 don't have any drivers in common.  The ribbon tweeter is the LCY, not the G2.  The mid is a small titanium driver from Visaton, not the Seas W18.  And the woofer is an 8" aluminum unit from Visaton, not the TC sounds 10".  The V3 is really intended as a cheaper alternative to the HT3 for full range duty in a music system, or front duties in an HT system.  I don't think they would be a very good choice for surrounds.  The HT1 would make more sense.

[Dekpm19]

Hi   Actually, the V3 and HT3 don't have any drivers in common.  The ribbon tweeter is the LCY, not the G2.  The mid is a small titanium driver from Visaton, not the Seas W18.  And the woofer is an 8" aluminum unit from Visaton, not the TC sounds 10".  The V3 is really intended as a cheaper alternative to the HT3 for full range duty in a music system, or front duties in an HT system.  I don't think they would be a very good choice for surrounds.  The HT1 would make more sense.

Here is what I was using for that statement.

[SInce I own both but have never swapped the 2 into the other rooms I can say that the V3 is essentially everything the HT3 is except for the bass.  The V3 just does not go as low.  As far as I am concerned the mids and highs are the same.



OK--to important matters first.  Can you really tell much difference between the 1080p pj and the old 720?   As for the V3's vs the HT3, I spent many a night A-B'ing between the two using a volume-compensated comparo box (which is essential--the V3 is considerably more sensitive), and under those conditions there is a slight difference in the midrange presentation.  That's simply because the V3 uses a much smaller midrange unit, which has broader dispersion.  I voiced to compensate, but there's only so much you can do or would want to, do.  Dispersion isn't bad.  I'm not sure which most people would prefer.  In terms of octave-to-octave balance, they're essentially identical above 38 Hz.  But nothing can set the neighborhood dogs off like the HT3's when they hit rock bottom.

Too keep things straight the top statement in this quote is from Pete(Big Red Machine) and the Bottom is from Dennis.

I really don't want to use stands for my sides and rears because of the way you will have to enter from the back of the room. The door is not centered in the room but to one side.

Allen

[DMurphy]

HI  Well, I'll certainly stick with what I said in that post.  The V3 is very similar except for bass and a slight difference in the midrange presentation.  I've just never considered them as designed for surround applications.  I'm sure they would work (and then some, given their bass capabilities).  The Songtowers would also work at half the price.  But then you might not like the idea of mixing ribbon and dome tweeters.  So I'll just stay out of this one.   

[Dekpm19]

Dennis I am just looking for the best match system for HT. Since I know I am going to be using a sub how do the HT2 and V3 go together. Are they the same drivers.
Allen

[jsalk]

Allen -

If you want to stick with the same drivers all around, the Veracity series speakers - the HT3's, HT1's and the HTC center channel - all use the same drivers.  The HT2's essentially use the same drivers as well, but substitute the LCY ribbon tweeter to allow closer spacing of the midwoofers. 

As for surrounds, we have used a number of different versions of the HT1's in the past, ranging from standard HT1's to one of two wall-hanging versions.  We can even build a floor standing version if required.

All of the Veracity series speakers will work well togther.  for example,  HT2's all around would make a great home theater. 

If you want the very best set-up possible, take a look at this system:



The speakers sitting on top of the subs are wall-mounted HT1's for the rears and our new bipole/dipole surround speakers for the sides.  Both of these designs are mounted on the wall, out of the way.

The V3's are from a different series of speakers (V-series).  These were designed to offer much of the performance of the Veracity series, but at a lower cost.  At present, along with the V3's, we have a large center channel and will most likely have surround speakers to match down the line.  Of course, if someone needs them now, we could certainly get to work on them.

I have also used MBOW1's for rear channel surround speakers along with the HT1's and/or HT3's for main speakers.  While the drivers are not the same, if size or cost is a consideration, this has been a very successful combination as they are voiced quite similarly.

The SongSurround speakers that go with the new SongTower QWT's are essentially the same speaker as the MBOW1 but substitute the Seas CA15RLY for the Peerless M130 midwoofer in the MBOW1's.  And the SongTowers themselves would probably work well as surrounds as far as that goes.

So there are many possibilities and we can certainly figure out something that will work well for you.  No problem

- Jim

[Dekpm19]

Thanks Jim I seen that set up.
Allen

[Dekpm19]

Well I will admit that after all my reading and looking around I think I like the V3 with the v3 monster center  for my setup. I am still a few months away getting my bouns room ready for my Ht but when I do I will be giving Jim a call. I have to say I hope Pete dosen't get mad because I like the way his speakers turned out with the black sides and the front wood grain.
Thanks
Allen