Bryston Demo Systems

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Katonoma

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Re: Bryston Demo Systems
« Reply #40 on: 21 Oct 2008, 08:51 pm »
Hi all,

THe Absolute Sound article James mentionned earlier is downloadable at

http://www.thielaudio.com/THIEL_Site05/Pages/promo_downloads.html#TAS37review

Very interesting article  :)

vegasdave

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Re: Bryston Demo Systems
« Reply #41 on: 21 Oct 2008, 09:52 pm »
Cool. Thanks for posting that.

James Tanner

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Re: Bryston Demo Systems
« Reply #42 on: 8 Nov 2008, 04:45 pm »

vegasdave

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Re: Bryston Demo Systems
« Reply #43 on: 8 Nov 2008, 11:09 pm »
Very cool. I can't wait!

James Tanner

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Re: Bryston Demo Systems
« Reply #44 on: 10 Nov 2008, 12:17 pm »
Review of JBL Array 1400 Speaker


A Few Surprises

I ordered the JBL 1400 Array speakers based on my exposure to the 1000 Arrays at the recent 2008 Rocky Mountain Audio Fest. I really like what I heard at the show and not having listened in my own soundroom to horn based speakers in a very long time I decided to take the plunge.

I have only listened to the 1400’s so far in the largest of my three soundrooms which is 16x23x8. The speakers are 4 feet from the front wall and 10 feet apart, toed in so as the axis of the speakers cross about 1 foot behind my head and I am sitting 10-11 feet back. The system consisted of a Bryston CD Player, Bryston BDA-1 External DAC, Laptop computer, Rega 9 turntable/arm with Benz Micro Ref 3 Copper MC Cartridge, and Cable 48K FM for sources. Preamplifier was the BP26/MPS-2 with Moving Coil Phono Stage and the amplifiers were a pair of Bryston 28B SST Mono amplifiers.

For those that want a peek at this baby:
http://www.jbl.com/home/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=1400%20ARRAY%20BG&CheckProduct=Y

The 1400 Array is a 3-way system using a ‘compression’ bi-radial mid horn and ‘compression’ tweeter horn with a 14 inch (hence Model 1400) dynamic woofer. The speaker is ported to the rear. The 1400 Array mid/tweeter compression drivers are mounted vertically in a freestanding configuration (no box). A lot of time and effort went into the design of this speaker to meld the benefits of horn drivers and the advantages of the more traditional audiophile oriented speakers into a package that would exhibit the best of both. This specific design was chosen to eliminate enclosure diffraction effects (see link above) and to provide more stable imaging, along with a wider, more three-dimensional soundstage. I measured the 1400 Array’s using both my ETF system and an Audio Precision 1/3rd octave spectrum analyzer. The near field (within 1 meter) measured very flat and the listening position was also excellent for flat frequency balance. Polar response held up very well measured at 1 meter to about plus/minus 60 degrees horizontally and plus/minus 30 degrees vertically from center axis at the midrange driver. Low frequency response was good down to about 32Hz then rolled off to about 3dB down at 25Hz. The bass response from 32 to 300Hz though was really flat at the listening position - not an easy thing to achieve in most real room setups.

The JBL 1400 Array uses compression drivers for the midrange and tweeter frequencies. A ‘compression driver’ is a type of loudspeaker driver which uses the technique of "compression" to achieve high efficiencies. In this context compression refers to the fact that the area of the loudspeaker diaphragm is significantly larger than the aperture through which the sound is radiated. They are normally used in conjunction with Acoustical Horns. Horn-loaded Compression Drivers can achieve extremely high efficiencies and low distortion compared to direct-radiating loudspeakers. This forced pressure from the large circumference of the driver into the much smaller circumference of the horn throat is what gives the ‘compression’ driver its distinction. The driver element ‘compresses ’the air into the throat of the horn. This impedance matching of the driver element to the air through the acoustical horn provides very high efficiency. It also allows for a very light weight low mass driver diaphragm that can respond almost instantaneously to transients with very low inter-modulation and harmonic distortion.

Some feel the so called typical ‘horn colorations’ are a function of this compression application. So horn flair and throat size is a critical issue for any designer of horn loudspeakers.  A lot of the horn systems you see today are not compression drivers but are standard dynamic type drivers that simply use the acoustical horn as a ‘waveguide’ to couple the driver to the surrounding air. The radiating driver diaphragm is similar in size as the aperture it radiates into. This also provides for a little better efficiency (impedance match) of operation and allows for a better transfer of energy from the driver to the air. Not as efficient as a compression driver but a bit more (1-2dB) efficient than a standard dynamic driver operating into open air. Horn speakers typically have efficiency ratings of 95dB or more whereas a typical dynamic speaker comes in at about 89dB. The Horn also acting as a waveguide allows for much better control of the on and off axis frequency response directivity. So the early reflections from the ceiling floor and sidewalls can be minimized using the horn as a waveguide. I mentioned in earlier reviews to think about speaker dispersion as if it were a light bulb. Some speakers radiate energy into the room like a flood light and some radiate energy into the room like a spotlight. The ‘Horn Speaker’ is more like a spot light with the on and off axis energy dispersion controlled in a very predictable manner.

There were a couple of surprises with this speaker given its horn heritage.

Surprise number 1.
The efficiency rating is 89db placing it more in line with your typical dynamic speaker rating. The reason is the horn bi-radial driver is reduced to match the efficiency of the 14 inch woofer whose own efficiency is a function of the chosen low-frequency response of the system. The much higher efficiency of the bi-radial horn is reduced to match the rating of the woofer chosen.

Surprise number 2.
The Crossover points between the woofer and the mid horn is 750Hz. In most 3 way systems the crossover between the woofer and mid is usually around 400Hz. The idea there is you do not generally want large drivers reproducing the voice range and typically woofers are crossed over as low as possible to the mid driver in a 3-way system.  In order to bring the crossover point down to 400Hz the 1400 Array mid horn would have to get much, much larger. The 1400 Array uses 24dB per octave crossover slopes though so the woofer is very quickly rolled off above its 750Hz crossover point. Also a forth-order (24dB) crossovers hinge point (750Hz) is already down 6dB at the crossover point quoted whereas a standard 6dB 12dB or 18dB crossover hinge point is only down 3dB at the crossover point quoted. So a 6dB per octave high-pass crossover on a woofer is only down 6dB one octave higher at 800Hz.
Continued on next page:

« Last Edit: 10 Nov 2008, 06:01 pm by James Tanner »

James Tanner

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Re: Bryston Demo Systems
« Reply #45 on: 10 Nov 2008, 12:17 pm »
So time to move on and get to the whole point of this review:
The sound of the JBL 1400 Array loudspeaker.


The so called typical ‘horn coloration’ was the main concern I had when I purchased the speakers. My previous experience was with owning Klipsch La Scala horn speakers many, many years ago. Of course at the time, in my budding audiophile days (age 18) they were wonderful. By horn colorations I mean the dreaded ‘cupped hands’ effect on the sound quality.  It is typified by a kind of ‘megaphone’ coloration that affects the sound. It makes voices and some instruments sound ‘shouty’ and ‘forward’. It can also affect the timber of some instruments so instruments do not have the kind of natural resonance and harmonic structure they have on a more typical non-horn type loudspeaker. Most brass and wind instruments sound excellent on horns of course given their heritage but voices, violins and other string instruments can come across highly colored. Voices especially can take that dreaded ‘nasal’ quality. Well not so with the 1400 Arrays – this is one smooth speaker. I was surprised at how well   they reproduced the sound of string instruments and especially voices. I was really pleased with the sound of cymbals which had that shimmer and extension, (rather than metallic ringing) that only comes with excellent high frequency extension and very low distortion. The high frequencies have a delicacy about them which I was not expecting at all. Apparently the compression horn tweeter goes out to 40K cycles – something I could not confirm and I have not trained the dog to bark when he hears anything beyond 25k yet.

The soundstage starts at the speaker and moves backward. I was expecting a much more in your face up-front sound with the 1400’s. Well nothing could be further from the truth with these Array’s. The stage is much more distant and in fact I was a little taken aback by this. At first I felt they lacked the intimacy and immediacy of other horn speakers I have listen to as well as some of the other loudspeakers I have in my other soundrooms.  The more I listened though the more I realized that the soundstage and image presentation was just different from other speakers I have currently in house. In fact one of the nice things is that you can sit very close to the speakers – say within 6 feet - and you do not feel like your being assaulted by the sound. It just spreads out and away in front of you and you get a deep open soundstage. The soundstage is not as big as with some other speakers but the images within the soundstage are very well defined with proper instrument sizes maintained. I think the controlled dispersion of the speaker has benefits in that the room boundaries do not affect the tonal balance of the sound as much but the effect produces a smaller overall picture of the stage as compared to very wide dispersion or dipole speakers. If your soundroom tends to sound bright and aggressive with your current dipoles or wide dispersion speakers the Array 1400’s will certainly tame things down.

Imaging was better than I expected especially beyond the outside boundaries of the speakers. In other words the left speaker could present an image to the left of the speaker and the right speaker could present a solid image to the right of the speaker. Many speakers can present a nice solid image between and behind the speakers but getting them to place a solid image off to the side of each speaker is rare. I know that some claim that side image is just a phantom image created by a strong off axis reflection from a nearby wall or an out of phase recorded signal but I did not expect this with the 1400 Array given the controlled dispersion employed with the bi-radial horn. I have used strong side wall reflections to advantage at times with specific setups because it makes the sound stage a little more spacious -- but usually at the expense of solid images.

I have an old recording by a group called ‘Deep Forrest’ which is an ‘Ambisonic’ recording.  If the speaker is capable this recording can place images off your right and left shoulders. In fact there are parts where the sound appears to be behind your head - (surround sound with two speakers no less). Anyway, the Array 1400 is one of the few speakers I have had in my soundroom that is capable of creating this surround effect.

The ‘ace in the hole’ though with the 1400 Array has to be the ability of this speaker to handle micro and macro dynamics with a sense of ease. You hear little very detailed subtle sounds and then a crescendo hits and the speaker swells with sound. But you never get that in your face aggressive sound or the forward projection of specific instruments out of the soundstage that many speakers have when they have to handle huge dynamic swings. You never feel like the speaker is being pushed. The soundstage gets louder as you turn the volume up but the soundstage stays intact with the proper ratios. Some speakers sound good at particular volume levels and levels below or above this preferred level tend to suffer in comparison. The very low distortion and the small movements of the speaker diaphragm of the compression drivers really pays off in spades in the 1400’s by maintaining the tonal balance and soundstage presentation as the volume levels are shifted up or down .Hearing the ‘spaces’ between musical notes is a difficult thing to explain but if a loudspeaker is capable of resolving that very low level detail you have something special at work.

The bass response in my room was very good. At times I felt the speaker was a touch thick in the midbass range but only in comparison to the other speakers I have used in the same room and location. This particular soundroom tends to dissipate low bass energy very quickly and with most other full-range speakers I have used in this room I have to augment the bass with subwoofers below about 60 Hz if I want that full bodied visceral low end. With the Array 1400’s I was getting a good 32 Hz at the listening position and excellent what I call ’puffy’ midbass. As shown by my measurements the bass range through the critical 32-300 Hz range was very flat indeed.

The other observation worth noting is the way transients are handled. I felt at times that the transient did not have the attack or quickness I am use to in the other speakers I have. Given these were horns I was kind of expecting the opposite. On recordings where I was use to a kind of ‘zing’ to the sound of the guitar string or the transient ‘whack’ of the rim shot on the snare drum (check out Stevie Ray Vaughan’s -- 'Tin Pan Alley’ recording) the 1400 appeared to slightly ‘soften’ or ‘blunt’ the effect. The more I think about it though the more I am considering that maybe the low distortion of the bi-radial horn may in fact be handling these huge transient energy swings with much less distortion. In other words, there is less overhang after the initial transient impulse due to the extremely low mass and control of the compression drivers in the bi-radial horn. So where my other speakers produce a kind of ‘ringing’ sound to the transient the horn handles it in stride. This transient response time is improving with speaker break-in so I am going to have to listen more to arrive at a more definitive answer on this one.

One of the advantages of horn systems is their ability to project the full frequency spectrum out into the room. Most point source dynamic type speakers have a falling high frequency response with distance (about 1 dB per meter) so if your sitting 10 to 12 feet back from the speaker the high end may have a slightly roll-off high frequency balance. Dipoles on the other hand typically do not perform the same and generally will have a similar measured frequency response when measured at 1 meter or 3 meters. With horns the ability to maintain that same flat frequency response over a greater distance can definitely work in your favor by providing a ‘near field’ listening experience in a ‘far field’ setup. Also the ability of the horn to ‘focus’ the sound forward reduces many early room reflections and greatly enhances the near field listening experience.

When I was thinking of ordering the 1400 Arrays I went on-line and looked for reviews or opinions from other users out there. Surprisingly other than a few references to the great sound in the JBL rooms at the audio shows with the Array’s not much else turned up. Most of the more influential audio magazines seemed to have turned a blind eye. After living with the 1400 Array’s for a while now I think I have the answer. These are probably the most ‘non-horn’ sounding ‘horn’ speakers available. The lower efficiency rating (no single ended tubes please), the low coloration, the open baffle diffraction free design, the compression drivers etc. tends to position it performance wise with similar sonic characteristic much more fitting with conventional dynamic box speakers than traditional horns. If you’re a traditional horn speaker lover you may not fine these ‘horny’ enough.

So I guess some level of caution is in order if you’re considering these speakers. If your tastes and appreciation of specific sonic qualities leans more towards the traditional sounds of Horn speakers then you may find the Array 1400 too laid back and not immediate enough for you. If you feel that traditional horn speakers have an in your face or aggressive overly colored presentation then the JBL Array 1400 may be just the ticket. 


James Tanner
Bryston

vegasdave

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Re: Bryston Demo Systems
« Reply #46 on: 10 Nov 2008, 12:33 pm »
Wow, that was one Hell of a review! Would you say the speakers are worth the price paid?

James Tanner

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Re: Bryston Demo Systems
« Reply #47 on: 10 Nov 2008, 03:57 pm »
Wow, that was one Hell of a review! Would you say the speakers are worth the price paid?

Hi Dave,

WOW that's always a tough one to answer. I did not have the smaller 1000 Array to compare to in my room so I am going on memory from the RAMF Show last month. I would say the 1000 is probably a better value. 

That being said though the 1400 takes the 1000 qualities and moves them up a notch. Its kind of like comparing a 3B to a 4B - it really is a close call and budget and power application usually determine which way the listener will go.

I guess I will have to get a pair of the K2's and see if the 1400's then become the real value in the lineup?

jethro

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Re: Bryston Demo Systems
« Reply #48 on: 10 Nov 2008, 10:47 pm »
I love your reviews James. I learn so much freakin' stuff when I read your writeups.
I feel like I just listened to the 1400s.

Thanks, Steve

vegasdave

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Re: Bryston Demo Systems
« Reply #49 on: 11 Nov 2008, 01:57 am »
Wow, that was one Hell of a review! Would you say the speakers are worth the price paid?

Hi Dave,

WOW that's always a tough one to answer. I did not have the smaller 1000 Array to compare to in my room so I am going on memory from the RAMF Show last month. I would say the 1000 is probably a better value. 

That being said though the 1400 takes the 1000 qualities and moves them up a notch. Its kind of like comparing a 3B to a 4B - it really is a close call and budget and power application usually determine which way the listener will go.

I guess I will have to get a pair of the K2's and see if the 1400's then become the real value in the lineup?

Ok, no problem. If I had to choose, I would go for the 1400's as well. I'm a sucker for big woofers.

I suppose. You gotta wonder. Not to mention the Everest.

Hopefully in the future, you can get one of the big Tannoys in and let us know how that sounds!

Katonoma

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Re: Bryston Demo Systems
« Reply #50 on: 19 Nov 2008, 08:33 am »
Hi All,

Just received the December issue of Stereophile and ....another nice review on the ThieL CS 3.7 (Front page  :D ).

Quite amazing and as a CS3.7 owner I pretty much agree, well after second thoughts maybe not quite when it comes to some kind of lack of bass. Guess I wouldn't define it like that.

Of course at this price range and given the comparisons for example to the WA Watt Puppy 8, it gives an idea of how these perform and the achievement Jim THIEL has put in designing such a nice speaker.

BTH, I could have a copy of the article for those interested.

Christian


James Tanner

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Re: Bryston Demo Systems
« Reply #51 on: 19 Nov 2008, 05:21 pm »
Hi All,

Update on the 1400 Array review:

With the help of Greg the speaker designer I am in the middle of setting up to run my 1400's 'Active' using a specially modified Bryston 10B Electronic Crossover.

james
« Last Edit: 19 Nov 2008, 06:33 pm by James Tanner »

vegasdave

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Re: Bryston Demo Systems
« Reply #52 on: 19 Nov 2008, 07:11 pm »
Hi All,

Update on the 1400 Array review:

With the help of Greg the speaker designer I am in the middle of setting up to run my 1400's 'Active' using a specially modified Bryston 10B Electronic Crossover.

james


Awesome. That's gotta be winner.

rydenfan

Re: Bryston Demo Systems
« Reply #53 on: 19 Nov 2008, 08:02 pm »
Hi All,

Update on the 1400 Array review:

With the help of Greg the speaker designer I am in the middle of setting up to run my 1400's 'Active' using a specially modified Bryston 10B Electronic Crossover.

james


Cool. I look forward to your thoughts.

James Tanner

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Re: Bryston Demo Systems
« Reply #54 on: 30 Nov 2008, 02:56 pm »

Viajero5000

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Re: Bryston Demo Systems
« Reply #55 on: 1 Dec 2008, 07:04 pm »
Hi James, thanks for providing the link above. I auditioned the MB2XBD-A's at Unilet for a couple of hours with the BP26+ BCD-1. Amps were 2 pair 7B and 2 pair 4B along with the 10B x-overs.

It was an emotional experience. Having heard both the mb2xbd-i and of course the passive mb2, i can say that this properly set up active system, coupled with the bryston front end, is in a class of its own, and by no small margin. Living with passive speakers is not going to be easy after hearing this.

Hats off to Bryston and PMC on this remarkable system.