[Daygloworange]

First of all, a personal thanks to Ethan Winer.

What prompted me to start this thread is of learning of yet another series of unjustified pot shots at Ethan Winer. And it's just wrong. To accuse him of wrongful ethics is IMO, disgusting.

As a musician and recording enthusiast, I've known about Ethan for many years, from the many, many articles he has written in numerous musicians, and recording industry magazines years before I ever became an "audiophile" or ever came onto an audio forum.

I've had a studio in my home for over 20 years, and have always taken room acoustics seriously. I've been reading Ethan's articles for years, and applying the knowledged I've gained as a direct result of his many articles.

He was and is some who always brought/brings along a wealth of information to a science that is not well understood or taken as seriously as it should. He never professed himself as some kind of voodoo Sven Gali, just someone who did a lot of research and applied it for his own studio and shared the knowledge and results with everyone.

His website is full of information for those who are not inclined to buy " his product", so to accuse him of being a shill when he posts on forums is absolute rubbish. He did it for years before he ever turned it into a business, for not a dime, and for everyone to benefit from it. Do a Google search for acoustics, or bass traps and you will find tons of articles written by him, explaining how room acoustics work, and always gave plenty of how too's for the DIYer's.

We have an acoustic circle here at AudioCircle and while every question usually gets answered by Ethan or Brian or Glenn at GIK, I don't think it's fair to think of these guys as shills. Who else would you want to consult you on these things? A bunch of half informed audiophiles that have nothing but subjective experiences to guide you?

The weirdest thing to me is that despite the fact that the average layman can very simply understand the principals of soundwaves and their propagation, they will focus more on cables, wires and stuff that is way beyond the knowledge of average people.

All of you acoustic gurus have my sympathies. I think you're all under appreciated in the audio world, and I don't even think that a lot of people here on the forums realize what your knowledge and products can do for each any everybody who's interested in audio reproduction.

We are lucky to have a direct line to experts in the field.

I have benefited tremendously from improvements I've done in my various rooms that have housed my personal studio, and have never had to shell out a dime.

So I'd like to extend my personal thanks. That and quarter won't even get you a cup of coffee, but, in any event..

You guys ROCK! 

Cheers

[MaxCast]

 

here here  I'll drink to that!

[mab]

Wow, I'm disappointed to hear that Ethan is being given a hard time.  He has always been very helpful to me and I've learned a lot from his posts on various forums and the info he shares on his website.  There are so many other people more deserving of a critical eye, Ethan hardly seems a worthy target.

[poseidonsvoice]

I wholeheartedly agree. Yesterday, I just downloaded and printed "Acoustic Treatment and Design for Recording Studio and Listening Rooms" by Ethan Winer. Link: www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html. Its a must read. This along with info published by John K and Siegried Linkwitz on dipole theory and Jon Risch's website have become the basis for my understanding (or lack of comprehension  ) on Room Acoustics and dipole loudspeaker design.

As Denny would say:  Rock on dudes!

And:  to you all!

Thanks Denny for starting this thread  ,

Anand.

[zybar]

All you have to do is see pics of my room or come and listen to it, to understand how much faith I put into Ethan's knowledge about room acoustics.

IMHO, Ethan has definitely been a valuable resource here on AC.

Thanks Ethan.

George 

[Ethan Winer]

Hey thanks very much guys!

Wow, I'm disappointed to hear that Ethan is being given a hard time.

This has been going on for a very long time, since I started RealTraps. There's a contingent of trouble-makers who congregate at the forum Joel linked to, and they've been intent on basically destroying me personally and professionally, and have tried to put me out of business because, well, actually I have no idea why! I think it started out of a misguided loyalty to a friend of theirs who used to work for Auralex, another acoustic treatment vendor. But the anti-Ethan bias eventually took on a life of its own, and I have many dozens of saved threads from many different forums where Joel's pals would all show up like a gang of thugs to call me incompetent. It's truly disgraceful. The good news is now that Joel and his partner are trying to be treatment vendors too, they've had to tone it down because they look like disgruntled competitors. Which of course is exactly what they are.

If you follow the link Joel posted and search that forum for "ethan" you'll find nearly 200 references to me, mostly bad-mouthing me. Some are threads that were started new just to defame me. I'm sure this is why Joel posted that link. Joel and his partner Scott Foster (who runs that other forum) have been linking to that forum for many years for this exact reason.

Also, and not to turn this into a soapbox, what I find most amazing about Ready Acoustics is after years of denigrating me and my products, and how my products are built, they have basically ripped off everything they could from me. Originally, they named their company ReadyTraps, which changes one letter in my company's name. When I rightly complained, Joel agreed to change his company name but not stop using the product name ReadyTraps, and basically told me to sue him if I didn't like it. Sheesh. I have several saved posts his partner Scott Foster made saying the metal frame construction we use is lame. And now? And now they have a cheap knock-off of our traps, metal frame and all.

--Ethan

[Rashiki]

Wow, I'm disappointed to hear that Ethan is being given a hard time.  He has always been very helpful to me and I've learned a lot from his posts on various forums and the info he shares on his website.

I agree completely. I've posted a couple of questions on this circle and Ethan has responded with extremely helpful advice. I am extremely grateful to Ethan and the other people who have been willing to take the time to answer questions. I do understand the basics of acoustics, but a basic grasp of the physics doesn't equal years of practical experience and it's very nice of Ethan to take the time to share his experience with us.

 -Rob

[nathanm]

If you watch any of Ethan's videos I dunno how anyone could reach the conclusion that he's anything but a sincere and honest guy.  Then again, maybe it's all a carefully crafted illusion!  Maybe Ethan's a consummate actor!  Maybe we are all suckers for buying into his cat-hugging, cello-sawing schpiel and don't know the true evil, plotting, cutthroat scoundrel who will step on anyone's neck to become king of the vast acoustic treatment empire!

My favorite Ethan Winer moment:

Doug: "Ahh, and now for this we need a level..."

"Nah! Just look at it!" 

[TONEPUB]

I had a great chat with Ethan the other day and we are looking forward to a full review
of his products, along with an in depth interview and he even offered to write a couple
articles for TONE Audio about room treatment basics...

Couldn't ask for a more straight up guy as far as I'm concerned!

I look forward to working with him....

We have also had excellent luck with Glenn at GIK as well.  Another great guy!

[Gaara]

My first impressions from Ethan was that he was a fake selling crap products.  This was when I first started looking into acoustics and ended up with Auralex products.

I eventually looked at Ethan's site and all the info made sense with things I read elsewhere.  I dug deeper and learned a whole lot from him, not only from the site but also posts and websites such as these.

From all I learned I ended up getting some GIK Acoustics traps to replace the Auralex I had, and there was a huge difference.  Without Ethan I would have been stuck thinking that these pieces of foam on my walls was taking care of all my bass issues.

So thanks Ethan for all of the great info and help you have given, it is really appreciated

Jared 

[gooberdude]

Gaara, you are way too honest...   

i don't own any of Ethan's products but over the last few years his posts here and at AA, plus his great website, have really turned me onto the importance of room acoustics.     Sad to hear of so much turbulence amongst acoustic treatment suppliers/designers.

without a treated room i would've given up on this pursuit long ago.    sitting & listening is no fun with some control in the room.

Besides, would a snake oil salesman allow himself to be photo'd with a cat????    Only an honest guy has cajones that big.



matt

[Zero]

This seems like the best time/place to say this;

Ethan took the time to give me a few suggestions on improving my digs not long ago. While it may be some time until I can put those suggestions to practice; they are valuable just the same. Thanks Ethan.

[ted_b]

Ethan has been one of the most upstanding, honest and, frankly, humble people I've come across in this hobby or any other.  He has consistently provided valuable insight, valuable products...and has numerous times convinced me to spend LESS $$  with him than I might have.  Why?  Because my acoustic problems could be solved cheaper with the right combination of products and placement. 

I have eight to ten RealTrap products installed, with another 5-6 planned in the near future.  Ethan has been very fair, very responsive (emails and telephone calls) and very much a friend in this business.   His passion for both acoustics and music are quite obvious...oh, and his one man cello concert is unbelievable.   

[woodsyi]

I have lots of acoustic treatments now but the first 10 ordered were Real Traps.  Ethan steered me in the right direction.  I am happy with my room.   You can get cheaper DIY types and you can get more expensive pro types, but when you combine functionality, esthetics and ease of installation, Real Traps are very fairly priced. 

[Jim N.]

I have never purchased any products from Ethan nor had any direct dealings with him but have read many of his articles. What he has contributed gratis is incredible. He's a straight shooter and that can ruffle some feathers. He has been a great resource for many. I have no use for those that attack him (or anyone else) for personal gain. A reputation is a delicate thing.

[1000a]

yes a strait shooter, kind enough to give tons of his time in his own forum answering endless questions no matter how old hat they might be for him.
and regardless if it has anything to do with him selling his product.  he seems a very geniune person and also has posted tons of info around for those who want to DIY instead of get commerical stuff.  the knowledge I have gained just studying his various posts on this topic have been invaluable to me.

a vast empire of the acoustical world - if he had his choice he would probably just play his music, its a good feeling to be of service to the larger world out side of "art", but usually an artists first passion is always art.

he seems the real deal to me a nice guy that is helpful-

it really sucks in the business world when these things happen.  usually people are eventually known by their own behavior, they usually sink their own boats-or at the very least must gaze in their own mirror.

[1000a]

Out of all the vendors involved here I have only experienced 1 that "I thought" was really annoyed - (I felt strongly that he implied his product will fix my problem) to answer a question.  This also could have been my perception.  and if that vibe is sent out there will never be a sale.  Everyone else especially the room treatment guys are constantly helping others regardless if there is a sale anywhere in sight.

yes it can be a touchy relations thing for the vendors here but many of them are greatful for the sales they do get and simply enjoy being here, the ones who are only here for the sales begin to stick out like crazy in short order.

Bill Baker (Response Audio) is another person who is extremely helpful and supportive regardless of a sale.  Most all of the vendors here are at least far to wise and many of them far to kind as people to behave in a manor that ultimately hurts their business in the long haul.

bad news always travels really fast.  as we all know

[Glenn K]

 We have an acoustic circle here at AudioCircle and while every question usually gets answered by Ethan or Brian or Glenn at GIK, I don't think it's fair to think of these guys as shills. Who else would you want to consult you on these things? A bunch of half informed audiophiles that have nothing but subjective experiences to guide you?

You guys ROCK! 

Cheers

Thank you so much for the kind words. Really all we are here to do is try to spread the word about the importance of room acoustics. 

I have known Ethan for about 2.5 years and not once have I ever encountered him being unethical or as gone out of his way to hurt GIK. It amazes me that there are a few guys out there that have spent so much time trying to discredit him when there are SO many snake oil acoustic companies out there. Does he get it right 100% of the time? No, but I doubt anyone does.  Granted a healthy discussion between 2 pros is GREAT, but I have seen it go WAY past that. I would go out on a limb and say that without Ethan there would still be people hanging egg crates for bass traps. 

Glenn

[zybar]

Thank you so much for the kind words. Really all we are here to do is try to spread the word about the importance of room acoustics. 

I have known Ethan for about 2.5 years and not once have I ever encountered him being unethical or as gone out of his way to hurt GIK. It amazes me that there are a few guys out there that have spent so much time trying to discredit him when there are SO many snake oil acoustic companies out there. Does he get it right 100% of the time? No, but I doubt anyone does.  Granted a healthy discussion between 2 pros is GREAT, but I have seen it go WAY past that. I would go out on a limb and say that without Ethan there would still be people hanging egg crates for bass traps. 

Glenn

Glenn,

That was a very nice post and it clearly shows you are a classy guy as well.

The fact that you and Ethan support each other and interact in such a professional manner is quite refreshing.

Thanks,

George

[fajimr]

WOW... haven't been visiting this thread much so I don't know what this is about but I must say I am shocked.  I spent a fair bit of time here, reading posts and asking questions while I was researching acoustic treatments.  All my treatments are DIY and I must say that 90% of my (limited) knowledge has come from Ethan's info (and I have recommended his primers to many).  I have always been astonished at how much time Ethan has spent responding to the many inquiries here.

In my book he is an A+ audiocircle member... and someone who gives much more than he gets from the site.

just my 0.02  I certainly appreciate Ethan and his willingness to share with the community

jim